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OK thanks dogsperson! 😊


My piano's voice is my voice to the great unknown, out there..in other words a hymn.That is all but that is enough.

Just sold my old C2 and am thinking of replacing it with a CBechstein124, Schimmel K132 or a YUS5.
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Originally Posted by tre corda
MrSh4kly
Congratulations on your Seiler as well.Perhaps if you post some photos of your grand,Starre will do the same.Thanks for the video of the Seiler factory.I do wonder how old the video is though.
Thank you very much, will do sometime over the weekend. Too beat going into a work deadline for the time being. I believe the video is even older than the 2012 YT date. It has Ursula Seiler as the owner, yet she sold the business to Samick in October, 2008. The video looks like it was made in the 70s or 80s based on everybody's hairstyles. Wondering if the economic contraction going on in 2008 triggered a need to sell. Ursula loved running the company based on everything I've heard and read.

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Originally Posted by MrSh4nkly
Originally Posted by tre corda
MrSh4kly
Congratulations on your Seiler as well.Perhaps if you post some photos of your grand,Starre will do the same.Thanks for the video of the Seiler factory.I do wonder how old the video is though.
Thank you very much, will do sometime over the weekend. Too beat going into a work deadline for the time being. I believe the video is even older than the 2012 YT date. It has Ursula Seiler as the owner, yet she sold the business to Samick in October, 2008. The video looks like it was made in the 70s or 80s based on everybody's hairstyles. Wondering if the economic contraction going on in 2008 triggered a need to sell. Ursula loved running the company based on everything I've heard and read.
Oh that is interesting! So that is Ursula Seiler who owned Seiler
after her husband died.I think they said her daughter was playing the Chopin Ballade? Perhaps I will listen to parts of the video again.Yes that behive hairstyle really stuck out!
I remember Samick bought Seiler.It seems they still make some instruments in Germany.(I think some of the uprights and grands are made there )some of the grands are partially made there or use German parts.I am sure all to a very high standard.

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Originally Posted by tre corda
It seems they still make some instruments in Germany.
If I'm not mistaken, "Seiler Primus" is 100% made in Germany, Kitzingen. "Johannes Seiler" is made in Indonesia. "Eduard Seiler" is made in Kitzingen, but using parts from Asia.
Long story short, "Seiler Primus" is a great instrument.
Recently I was also shopping for a new German upright and played a lot of Schimmel, Seiler and Sauter.


Ohne Musik wäre das Leben ein Irrtum.
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Originally Posted by MHirsch
Originally Posted by tre corda
It seems they still make some instruments in Germany.
If I'm not mistaken, "Seiler Primus" is 100% made in Germany, Kitzingen. "Johannes Seiler" is made in Indonesia. "Eduard Seiler" is made in Kitzingen, but using parts from Asia.
Long story short, "Seiler Primus" is a great instrument.
Recently I was also shopping for a new German upright and played a lot of Schimmel, Seiler and Sauter.
Yes of course I know all 3 of these companies make pianos in Germany even those which have which have major Asian investors.With Seiler the SE models are totally made there.The same with the Schimmel Konzert and Classic series.Grotrian still also makes pianos there.


My piano's voice is my voice to the great unknown, out there..in other words a hymn.That is all but that is enough.

Just sold my old C2 and am thinking of replacing it with a CBechstein124, Schimmel K132 or a YUS5.
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MHirsch
So is your Sauter Carus 122 your new piano?


My piano's voice is my voice to the great unknown, out there..in other words a hymn.That is all but that is enough.

Just sold my old C2 and am thinking of replacing it with a CBechstein124, Schimmel K132 or a YUS5.
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Originally Posted by tre corda
MHirsch
So is your Sauter Carus 122 your new piano?
Yes, it is!


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Congratulations on your new piano. The Seiler is a great instrument. Wishing you many happy years with it!!! Enjoy!!

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Congratulations from another owner of German craftsmanship! Hope to hear you playing it in one of the recital groups here.
Ian


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I am sure Sauter is nice and Blüthner too, many great instruments to choose from. One question, what do you think is the ideal distance between the wall and back side of a upright piano? I have no room for a free standing piano.

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My piano is about 5 inches from the wall.I think a piano sounds at its best when it's not too near the wall.


My piano's voice is my voice to the great unknown, out there..in other words a hymn.That is all but that is enough.

Just sold my old C2 and am thinking of replacing it with a CBechstein124, Schimmel K132 or a YUS5.
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You only need a few inches. Maybe 4-6. Or 10 - 15 cm.


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Originally Posted by Starre
One question, what do you think is the ideal distance between the wall and back side of a upright piano?
Each room's acoustics is unique, so you'll have to find out yourself. I hope your Seiler has casters :-)
As a rule of thumb, 10 - 20 cm from the back wall, as mentioned above, and min 40 cm on the sides.


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Thanks Ray! I have a little less than 10 cm (4 inches) right now, I will try a little more. I have 4 wheels on it so it is not that hard to move!

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Originally Posted by tre corda
MrSh4kly
Perhaps if you post some photos of your grand,Starre will do the same.
2011 was the first year Samick made Seiler-designed pianos in Indonesia. Per the serial number, my ED-168, shown below, was the 43rd of that Indonesian-made line produced that year. According to the dealer, it was not pre-owned, sat on his floor for a year, and in various warehouses all the time before that. Based on the hammer condition, I tend to believe him. The technician who tuned and voiced it in my home had me assist him with moving the action so he could tweak my sostenuto rod, and the action does have Renner's name on it. It is very well-regulated, a bit on the heavy side, and feels wonderful to play. Starre, the OP, has the real deal, a genuine German-made Seiler, and it's brand new, so in that sense I'm a bit jelly. My only consolation is having been set back $16K instead of $30K or worse.

Per Larry Fine's Piano Buyer Model and Price Supplement, the SMP on a new polished ebony ED-168 like mine is $28.5K while the SMP for the German-made polished ebony ES-168 is a whopping $74.5K. The SMP on OP's SE-122 is $30.5K:

https://www.pianobuyer.com/piano-buyer-model-price-supplement/

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Here is a picture as promised, this is using my iphone so it is not spectacular, but something to start with.
[Linked Image]
That grand piano looks nice! Hope you are pleased, MrSh4nkly.

Last edited by Starre; 10/17/21 10:17 AM.
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Starre and MrSh4nkly,
Thank you for showing us your pianos! Both beautiful!
I like the polished ebony with pianos too.It always looks more formal but smart. Congratulations again and best wishes.

MHirsch
It would be great if you posted a picture of your Sauter 122 as well.We would love to see it!

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With my positioning against a hard concrete wall the treble is too bright/powerful with the reflections so I put some thin styrofoam plates against the wall behind the piano. It is much better with them in place.

Last edited by Starre; 10/17/21 01:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by Starre
That grand piano looks nice! Hope you are pleased, MrSh4nkly.
Your Seiler is gorgeous, hope you are too.

I couldn't be more pleased. For $16K, my tuner-tech said I got really lucky (for once, after buying an old home built in the 50s from a flipper who basically put lipstick on a money pig). I thought there might be something wrong with my ED-168, but the tech looked it over thoroughly and said it's in great shape. There were the few, aforementioned issues that were easily fixed. It was pretty bright when it arrived, so he took the edge off with some very shallow needling on the hammer strike points. The sustain is to die for. With the dampers raised, if Middle C is played as sharply as I dare, it's more than 30 seconds before the note can't be heard anymore (timed it with phone stopwatch app today).

Working on a Rameau piece, La Vilageoise ("The Villager"...there's no double-L in the French title of the piece in the Bärenreiter urtext edition, which I found odd, but maybe the French didn't yet use double-Ls in 1700?), which is an alluring, melancholy rondo full of all kinds of savory ornaments (picture a nearly desitute villager, going about his or her day, eking out a living, yet unable to not pause from toiling long enough to admire the light on the landscape; thankfully, Bärenreiter includes Rameau's very own ornament table for the student's learning pleasure), all of which are to be played on the beat, and rich, contrapuntal hooks and licks, that I'll record and post on this forum once it's ready, since a user in another thread asked me to record and play something (after a 30-year layoff, hence not quite yet). I noticed most of the performers on YouTube leave many of the ornaments out, and/or make up their own, which plenty of fine musicians say is acceptable as this was common practice among performers during the Baroque era. However, it's sad, here, because the piece with its many, varied ornaments the way Rameau wrote it is a masterpiece in varied, mood-enhancing articulation.

Pardon the digression...the reason I brought up this piece is to point out the resonance Seiler gives it. The damper pedal is only sparingly needed, and barely a hair when needed. Defintely not on the ornaments. With zero pedal, and a slight yet deliberate wrist raise into the final note on the keybed held for its full length, the ornaments come off crisply with a hum you can feel in your chest. This is was what I believe Ravel was going for with the repeating ornaments in his Prelude for Le Tombeau de Couperin. (He must have loved Rameau in addition to Couperin, because the same, 4th octave, D#-F# minor third with an ornament on the F# found in the Prelude is in La Vilageoise, only the ornament is slightly different.) Years ago I found this by no means easy to pull off cleanly, convincingly and consistently. Certainly the Renner action helps, but Seiler magically figured out a way to bring out the drone in that hum.

Originally Posted by tre corda
Starre and MrSh4nkly,
Thank you for showing us your pianos! Both beautiful!
I like the polished ebony with pianos too.It always looks more formal but smart. Congratulations again and best wishes.
You're welcome, and thanks again.

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Originally Posted by tre corda
MHirsch
It would be great if you posted a picture of your Sauter 122 as well.We would love to see it!
Here it is.
No idea how to make piano pictures right - the polish reflects like everything, so didn't manage to get a clear picture...

[Linked Image]


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