2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
67 members (cschuh1, Calavera, Abdol, AlphaBravoCharlie, An Old Square, brdwyguy, ChrisGoesPiano, bobrunyan, 21 invisible), 717 guests, and 465 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
H
HZPiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
Hello,

I am quite curious about the Kawai MP7SE, primarily how it holds up as a proper MIDI controller for quality virtual piano libraries (the likes of VI Labs, Synchron Pianos). Incidentally, perhaps to use its onboard sound engine as well (acoustic piano samples).

How does it compare to Roland's PHA-4?

How accurate is it in its MIDI output? Does it properly produce the whole velocity range (1 -- 127)? How are the pedal values?

I would love to know more about this, so in advance -- thanks a lot!

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7
P
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
P
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7
I've owned the MP7SE for about a year and use it primarily as a MIDI controller for Ravenscroft 275. I also have Modern U, Garritan CFX, and Pianoteq, but rarely use them, more due to laziness than anything else. I use an older MacBook pro for the VSTs and a direct USB connection from piano to laptop. Overall I'm very happy with that setup; default settings on the VSTs seem to be OK except for Garritan where the noticeable latency is distracting but I haven't played with the settings to try and improve that.

The default internal sound on the MPSE7 is the SK-EX which I like a lot and is, in my opinion, preferable to the other internal piano sounds. In other circumstances I would be happy with the SK-EX sound but I travel a lot (with a MIDI keyboard) and prefer consistency, so I almost never use the SK-EX. I have tried running them simultaneously (R275 via MIDI + internal SK-EX) in which case the VST latency is perceptible and a little distracting, but it doesn't bother me at all with MIDI only.

I've played just a little bit with the other onboard sounds on the MP7SE; the organ and EPs seem really nice and I could imagine using them if I start getting out for gigs playing with a group but have not done so yet.

I haven't experimented extensively with velocity and tend to prefer a concave velocity curve. Anecdotally, when watching the MIDI output, it's easy to achieve a 10 - 110 range with my normal approach to touch. However, I'm a jazz not a classical player and the instrument is located in a relatively small room so I don't push the dynamic range that much while practicing or playing.

Pedaling is another story though. I have the default pedal that shipped with the MP7SE and it's either 0 or 127. It doesn't bother me that much so I haven't looked into it extensively, i.e. I'm not sure if a different pedal setup would allow a quantitative and graded pedal response.

Hope this helps.

Greg

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
H
HZPiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
Hello,

@Plinian, Thank you for your nice and informative answer!

About the default pedal (which I assume is the F-10H), it is a wonderful quality pedal which is perfectly capable of producing a reliable continuous position reading. I use two of these (directly interfaced to my piano PC) and get very neat 0 -- 127 values out of them. So I would assume the MP7SE would be able to make good use of that as well, maybe there is a setting to be switched or something?

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,501
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,501
Originally Posted by HZPiano
Hello,

I am quite curious about the Kawai MP7SE, primarily how it holds up as a proper MIDI controller for quality virtual piano libraries (the likes of VI Labs, Synchron Pianos). Incidentally, perhaps to use its onboard sound engine as well (acoustic piano samples).

How does it compare to Roland's PHA-4?

How accurate is it in its MIDI output? Does it properly produce the whole velocity range (1 -- 127)? How are the pedal values?

I would love to know more about this, so in advance -- thanks a lot!

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

You could be in danger of acquiring too much information. It'll only confuse. Any digital piano will reproduce MIDI well; Casios do, too. With the MP, you'd need external speakers. If you choose a hi-fi system of sorts instead of near face monitors you'll have much more control over your sound.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
H
HZPiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
Hello,

Thank you @peterws.

Yes, information overload is a real danger 🙂 but still under control (at times).

Unfortunately, from testing several instruments, I found that not all MIDI outputs are created equal and some are sub satisfactory. So this is an aspect I always double check through information/user experiences and testing before making any purchase.

As for speakers, indeed I am not too fond of monitors. Instead, I use two Onkyo stereo amplifiers that I restored and six Wharfedale HiFi speakers, placed so as to resemble the sound production of an upright piano. Works a treat!

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,501
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,501
Originally Posted by HZPiano
Hello,

Thank you @peterws.

Yes, information overload is a real danger 🙂 but still under control (at times).

Unfortunately, from testing several instruments, I found that not all MIDI outputs are created equal and some are sub satisfactory. So this is an aspect I always double check through information/user experiences and testing before making any purchase.

As for speakers, indeed I am not too fond of monitors. Instead, I use two Onkyo stereo amplifiers that I restored and six Wharfedale HiFi speakers, placed so as to resemble the sound production of an upright piano. Works a treat!

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

Sounds like a better system than I have (two 15W bass practise amps and a couple of cheap bookshelf Gale speakers.) But mine sounds really good imo!
I don't think I've ever thoroughly tested a piano in my life. Ten minutes max; if it sounds better than my current, I'll buy it!
I didn't try my last piano at all. I knew the action, liked the price and it was available. That was good enough.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,368
A
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,368
Originally Posted by HZPiano
Hello,

Thank you @peterws.

Yes, information overload is a real danger 🙂 but still under control (at times).

Unfortunately, from testing several instruments, I found that not all MIDI outputs are created equal and some are sub satisfactory. So this is an aspect I always double check through information/user experiences and testing before making any purchase.

As for speakers, indeed I am not too fond of monitors. Instead, I use two Onkyo stereo amplifiers that I restored and six Wharfedale HiFi speakers, placed so as to resemble the sound production of an upright piano. Works a treat!

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ


RHIII action is a very well-designed action and MP7SE works just fine as a decent midi controller and most importantly, it is a very powerful master controller in a multi-keyboard setup.

Watch 24:00 this:



Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
H
HZPiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
Hello,

@Abdol, Thank you for reassurance regarding the action. That, together with proper MIDI behavior, are the most important criteria.

I do hope to be able to make some time to feel an MP7SE under my own fingers. No store nearby, so not as straightforward planning-wise.

As I understand it, the HI-XL is the second best after SK Rendering (as it is called??) and well-regarded. It would be good to be able to play without the external computer from time to time.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 316
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 316
Whether you will like it or not may depend on your repertoire.

I do not know MP7SE, but I had MP7 and had to replace it, mainly because of its "plasticky" action and poor quality of other (non-piano) sounds.

Concerning the action: It had, if I remember well, 5 levels of hardness (velocity curves): Very Hard, Hard, Medium, Soft, Very Soft. All this did not allow me to perform a loud note or chord, in F or FF dynamic level, simultaneously with a glissando in P or PP, so that the glissando would not make the note (chord) inaudible. Because of the low inertial moment of the keys, glissandos always sounded as FF. Changing the velocity curve provides only illusion of changing the keyboard hardness.

This problem was resolved when I got Kawai VPC1, which brilliantly supports all kinds of phrasing.

Concerning other voices (I was mainly interested in classical orchestra sounds): It is poor and not well balanced (as to volume, automation etc.) in comparison with other hardware sounds I have (mainly Yamaha Motif).

Last edited by Andrew_G; 10/20/21 10:28 AM.
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,368
A
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,368
Originally Posted by Andrew_G
Whether you will like it or not may depend on your repertoire.
I do not know MP7SE

Enough information here. MP7 has RH-II and MP7SE has RH-III action

Originally Posted by Andrew_G
but I had MP7 and had to replace it, mainly because of its "plasticky" action and poor quality of other (non-piano) sounds.

You made a wrong decision. Blaming Kawai because of your lack of knowledge is a childish argument. MP series are stage pianos and the "other sounds" are there for the sake of layering.

MOTIF series is a workstation, a synthesizer, and your comparison doesn't make sense. Expand your knowledge to avoid falling into pitfalls like the above.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
H
HZPiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
Hello,

@Andrew_G, Thank you for your notes. The action in the MP7SE is rather different from the MP7 you describe, though.

I should look at the VPC1 as well, in fact in the past I already did, and it is at around the same price point. But it is often reported to be a very nice, but also heavy(ish) action which may be not what I am looking for. And the instrument as a whole is even heavier than the MP7SE.

The search continues, sensible comments always welcome.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 316
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by Andrew_G
I had MP7 and had to replace it, mainly because of its "plasticky" action and poor quality of other (non-piano) sounds.

You made a wrong decision.

Yes, I made a wrong decision. But not when I replaced MP7 with VPC-1. I made a wrong decision when I acquired MP7 with its plasticky action, and I only suspect that MP7SE did not go very far from that. VPC-1 is totally another league, and I only suggest to everybody to carry the test with glissando, which I described above, with MP7SE.

Clearly this makes sense only if the OP's goal is a serious piano work and not layering piano sounds with mediocre orchestra sounds.

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 316
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 316
P.S. Yes, VPC-1 is very, very heavy to move and to transfer. IMO it is unsuitable for gigging.

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
H
HZPiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
Hello,

Yes the OP is into serious music, hence he currently only plays one or two really decent virtual piano libraries.

"Hammond" may be a secondary interest, anything else would be just for messing about with from time to time, if and only if he even has such time 🙂.

OP is not gigging.

Cheers and the happiest playing,

HZ

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7
P
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
P
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7
Hi @HZPiano,

Thanks for the information about the pedal; apparent lack of continuous output hasn't yet bothered me enough to look into switching settings or routings. Full disclosure: My statement about lack of continuous output is based on what I see in Logic Pro's automation track after a recording, and I have not examined pedal output values in real time (you've motivated me to do so!)

I also wanted to make a comment about action since you mentioned that as well, and there has been some discussion of VPC-1. I also have an MP10 (in another location where I spend the weekends). The MP10 has the "RM3 Grand action with let-off", the VPC-1 has the "RM3 Grand 2 action", and the MP7SE has the RHIII action (latter two as mentioned previously).

I find the action on the MP10 to be VERY different from the MP7SE. They're both a pleasure to play; the MP10 requires considerably more force but I find it easier to play repetitive notes at tempo on the MP10. Digression: would be interesting to know how the MP10 compares to the VPC-1.

Bottom line--the MP7SE is on the "lighter" end of the range when it comes to actions but I like it (maybe I'm just not that picky) and am able to generate a large dynamic range even with a slightly convex velocity curve in my VST.

Greg

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
H
HZPiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,018
Hello,

@Plinian, So nice to see a single forum thread create multiple inspirations for multiple people 🙂.

Thanks a lot for more impressions on the various actions. I'll have to let that sink in for a bit.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ


Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Piano height
by Dantheboogieguy - 12/08/21 07:57 AM
Another question on monitors
by Ubu - 12/08/21 07:44 AM
Music Books by Glen Rose
by john fh - 12/08/21 05:35 AM
First time vst...need your input
by Tiva - 12/08/21 05:32 AM
Strange Opening Screen on Kawai CA78
by dagaras - 12/08/21 03:03 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,443
Posts3,151,422
Members103,555
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5