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Joined: Jan 2009
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Hi, shown are measures/bars 47 to 49 of the sonata.
My question: are the notes on measure 48 and measure 49 exactly the same?

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AqI5gEyQR5QxgeRBMLjuc113BkVJ-g?e=KqkqvV

If so, why is it on measure 48, note A is noted as flat and note F is noted as natural when those are already the defaults from the key signature?

If they are different, what are the differences?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by DaveInMichigan; 10/24/21 02:23 PM.

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They are the same notes in each measure. I'd have to see the measures before the one you posted to be sure, but I assume the accidentals in 47 that are not shown in 48 are courtesy accidentals. That means that although they are not really necessary they are reminding you that the notes indicated are flatted by the key signature even though in an earlier measure they had a natural sign next to them.
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The measures in question are actually 48 and 49. The measure before (47) is also shown there. I don't see the need, and that's why I was confused.

And I thought courtesy accidentals are indicated with parenthesis, but maybe the notation software didn't allow that (or the person entering it didn't use the parenthesis). This is from a Mutopia Project file that I downloaded a few years ago.

Thanks for your reply!


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Originally Posted by DaveInMichigan
The measures in question are actually 48 and 49. The measure before (47) is also shown there. I don't see the need, and that's why I was confused.

And I thought courtesy accidentals are indicated with parenthesis, but maybe the notation software didn't allow that (or the person entering it didn't use the parenthesis). This is from a Mutopia Project file that I downloaded a few years ago.

Thanks for your reply!


Regardless of the printing, you will sometimes find courtesy accidentals In parentheses, sometimes not


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Originally Posted by DaveInMichigan
The measures in question are actually 48 and 49. The measure before (47) is also shown there. I don't see the need, and that's why I was confused.

And I thought courtesy accidentals are indicated with parenthesis, but maybe the notation software didn't allow that (or the person entering it didn't use the parenthesis).
Personally, I find 'courtesy accidentals' useful, especially if I'm sight-reading, regardless of whether parentheses are used. The ones you mentioned are also in my ancient edition (far older than even my mother), so maybe Luddy himself put them there. I'm sure someone somewhere who has access to the original manuscripts will tell us - within the next few minutes - if that's so smirk .

As to why it's deemed prudent (by the editor, if not the composer) in this case, it's obviously because you were playing in E major the previous bar, which has no flats, and suddenly everything's changed. So, as pianists in general are considered to be on the thick side by B (and others), it seems a wise thing to remind them (us) there were flats in the key signature........


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Originally Posted by bennevis
Personally, I find 'courtesy accidentals' useful, especially if I'm sight-reading, regardless of whether parentheses are used.

Now that I have confirmed its usage, I am fine with or without parentheses. In the past I often found it confusing, like my brain had already read it with the flat from the key signature, but there was also a flat written (if w/o parentheses), so I always thought, "is this doing something special?" or "have I missed something in the previous measure?" smile


Dave

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