2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Advanced Piano Tricks
Advanced Piano Tricks
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
49 members (Alexander Nagel, celime, abrogard, AOMMY, bimzdbear, 36251, chopinetto, Animisha, 10 invisible), 1,045 guests, and 422 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 267
V
Visalia Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 267
Basically I have a few questions about pedal use. Any youtube videos on the subject just seem to be targeted towards a person who doesn't know what it's for. I posted a thread about pedal use before and I was basically told "you need to get a feel for it". At this stage I've learned quite a few songs to completion without being really sure how to play play the pedal for them.

I'm not really sure how a pianist typically tackles pedal use when doing something like an out of key chromatic note. Do they have thoughts like "oh I'll get away with the bad sound because it's very near the end of the measure"? Or do they briefly take their foot off the pedal while making sure to hold most of the other notes down? It's these sort of things that I need examples of and instructions for exactly how to do.

So being a bit puzzled about pedal use I would like to send a few - seemingly random and specific - questions on to someone to answer. It would involve links to songs with timestamps referring to the exact parts I can't pull off, and what exactly I would need to do to get the sound the way the player gets it. I think having a few of such questions answered would help get me on my 'feet' for pedal use going forward. Now I only have one (standard sustain) pedal with my keyboard; but I wouldn't really think that the pieces I've learned would involve the use of the other (two) pedals anyway. Maybe I could also tackle this issue independently if I could read music!

So obviously I don't really feel that it's lessons that I want. I'm not sure if there's a more appropriate way of going about this sort of request, or if there are good pianists out there who give this sort of service. But assuming there isn't then feel free to PM me. I don't really have an issue with cost, but at the same time I would like to think that the person involved enjoys answering my questions to a certain extent, and that money wouldn't really be an issue for them either. I could pay via whatever is the best online money transfer method.

Thank you

Last edited by Visalia; 12/08/21 12:36 PM.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,269
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,269
Are you playing specifically non-classical music? Because I feel like you might be able to get someone in the Pianist Corner to help (without pay).

But if it's specifically non-classical and you want someone with that specialty, hopefully someone here would be able to do a few targeted lessons with you.

Good luck!


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9,524
Gold Subscriber
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9,524
You might find this YouTube lesson useful


Graham Fitch also has a tutorial on use of the sustain pedal

There are Principles: if it sounds too mushy, release the sustain
If there are a lot of fast notes, you will either need to depress and release the sustain frequently to keep all the notes from blurring together. You might not want to use the sustain at all.

Experiment with your ears! Record yourself and play it back

I would also recommend a book ‘piano preludes’.
It is a book of Romantic, easy to play pieces. Each one has exercises for you to change how you pedal and listen to the change. You can find used copies’.

Last edited by dogperson; 12/08/21 01:17 PM. Reason: Pedal preludes
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 267
V
Visalia Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Are you playing specifically non-classical music? Because I feel like you might be able to get someone in the Pianist Corner to help (without pay).

But if it's specifically non-classical and you want someone with that specialty, hopefully someone here would be able to do a few targeted lessons with you.

Good luck!
I don't if I know what (as regards pedalling) the difference is, but yes I think it's mainly non-classical.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9,524
Gold Subscriber
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9,524
Originally Posted by Visalia
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Are you playing specifically non-classical music? Because I feel like you might be able to get someone in the Pianist Corner to help (without pay).

But if it's specifically non-classical and you want someone with that specialty, hopefully someone here would be able to do a few targeted lessons with you.

Good luck!
I don't if I know what (as regards pedalling) the difference is, but yes I think it's mainly non-classical.

It’s the same principle in both classical and non-classical: listen while you play, record yourself and listen. If it sounds too mushy, release and reapply the pedal or don’t use it. If it sounds too dry, use the pedal. It is a matter of experimenting and developing your ears


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,499
N
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,499
The right piano pedal has a number of functions:
1. sound lengthening
2.changing the timbre by releasing the resonance of the remaining strings, which can be gradual ( by gradual changing the depth of pressing , which exist in an electronic pedal in limited scope )
3. creating of an acoustic effect of transition from a small space to a large one, and vice versa - in conjunction with changes in dynamics and registers (which almost does not exist in an electronic pedal ). Corresponds to dry sound and echo effect to varying degrees.
4. using a half-pressed pedal that allows you to sustain sustained bass sound while playing a series of staccato chords at the same time, even with just one left hand ( exists in modern serious electronic pedal )
5. specific accent by a short pedal at the beginning of a long sound
6.creating a crescendo-diminuendo effect within a sustained sound (as in Schumann's Melody opus 68)
7. pedal vibrato
8.pedal tremolo
9.Simply pressing the damper pedal before starting a performance creates the effect that the piano begins to breathe.

And more, and more ...

The gradation of pressing the pedal is similar to the gradation of pressing the key, and is similarly guided by the ear, therefore, it is advisable to experimentally expand the number of positions of pressing the pedal (gradation). For example, I can extract twenty-two right pedal positions from my 1939 Bluetner. Every pianist should search for himself - without any teacher, only by ear.

Last edited by Nahum; 12/08/21 03:05 PM.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,269
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,269
Re my post, I didn't really mean "classical pedaling" as opposed to "non-classicaly pedaling" -- I agree, at their base, they are the same.

I was thinking more that if the videos you wanted people to watch were of you playing classical pieces, the folks in the Pianist Corner would likely be very receptive, esp. since there are often very technical (technique-oriented) discussions going on in that forum. But of the pieces being used were not classical, the folks in that forum would very likely direct you here.

Sorry for not being clear.


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,116

Gold Supporter until Nov 1 2022
1000 Post Club Member
Offline

Gold Supporter until Nov 1 2022
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,116
Originally Posted by dogperson
It’s the same principle in both classical and non-classical: listen while you play, record yourself and listen. If it sounds too mushy, release and reapply the pedal or don’t use it. If it sounds too dry, use the pedal. It is a matter of experimenting and developing your ears

Yes, as dogperson says, let your ear guide your foot. I am working on a piece where certain sections sound like they could use some pedaling, at least when I practice on my digital. But when I play it on my acoustic, I pedal much less or not at all, due to the fact the acoustic has a lot more resonance than the digital.

All this is guided by how it sounds to my ear.


Daily driver: Yamaha Avantgrand N1
First crush: Kawai GL10, MP11SE
Current fling: Petrof III
Foster child: 1927 Kurtzmann upright
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,831
D
dmd Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,831
The best way I know to develop skill with pedaling is to play simple songs .... like Silent Night .... and play chords in your left hand and melody in the right hand.

First play it with the pedal down all the time. That will demonstrate the need for using the pedal.

Then play it again and and this time .... every time you change chords ... lift your foot off the sustain pedal and put it back down immediately. This action causes the previous chord notes to stop ringing.

That will get you started any way. You need to use your ears to "hear" when it is time to stop the previous notes from ringing while you begin playing notes for the new chord.


Don

Kawai MP7SE, Focusrite 2i2 audio interface, Yamaha MG06 Mixer, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 815
R
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 815
Originally Posted by Visalia
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Are you playing specifically non-classical music? Because I feel like you might be able to get someone in the Pianist Corner to help (without pay).

But if it's specifically non-classical and you want someone with that specialty, hopefully someone here would be able to do a few targeted lessons with you.

Good luck!
I don't if I know what (as regards pedalling) the difference is, but yes I think it's mainly non-classical.
From my experience, there is a difference between classical and non classical. Classical has a much stricter emphasis on not allowing harmonies to merge. For non classical it's not so clear. If possible, listen to music in your target style and observe what they are doing.

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,499
N
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,499
Originally Posted by ranjit
From my experience, there is a difference between classical and non classical.
Yes, if we understand "non-classical" as music of the post-classical period, and not specifically jazz or pop, saturated with modalisms. If we talk about the "jazz" pedal, then rather about its absence - which is typical for bebop.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9,524
Gold Subscriber
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9,524
Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by Visalia
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Are you playing specifically non-classical music? Because I feel like you might be able to get someone in the Pianist Corner to help (without pay).

But if it's specifically non-classical and you want someone with that specialty, hopefully someone here would be able to do a few targeted lessons with you.

Good luck!
I don't if I know what (as regards pedalling) the difference is, but yes I think it's mainly non-classical.
From my experience, there is a difference between classical and non classical. Classical has a much stricter emphasis on not allowing harmonies to merge. For non classical it's not so clear. If possible, listen to music in your target style and observe what they are doing.

If you mean classical to be non-pop, classical music is not strict on not allowing harmonies to merge. For reference, look at the ‘special effects’ section on page 2

https://www.mtna.org/downloads/Conference/Handouts/2017/Saturday/TheArtOfPedaling.pdf


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 815
R
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 815
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by ranjit
Originally Posted by Visalia
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Are you playing specifically non-classical music? Because I feel like you might be able to get someone in the Pianist Corner to help (without pay).

But if it's specifically non-classical and you want someone with that specialty, hopefully someone here would be able to do a few targeted lessons with you.

Good luck!
I don't if I know what (as regards pedalling) the difference is, but yes I think it's mainly non-classical.
From my experience, there is a difference between classical and non classical. Classical has a much stricter emphasis on not allowing harmonies to merge. For non classical it's not so clear. If possible, listen to music in your target style and observe what they are doing.

If you mean classical to be non-pop, classical music is not strict on not allowing harmonies to merge. For reference, look at the ‘special effects’ section on page 2

https://www.mtna.org/downloads/Conference/Handouts/2017/Saturday/TheArtOfPedaling.pdf
I went through the page and I know what it's talking about. However, my point still stands that classical has a much stricter emphasis on not allowing harmonies to merge. Even the counterexamples are where it's unavoidable to allow harmonies to merge in order to get a connected sound or enough resonance for a big hall, or certain special effects which are quite uncommon. It's still very clearly desirable, in a way arguably more so than a lot of more modern music.

In different styles, the rules are different. Some may have little to no pedal, others may use pedal more freely, not caring about the dissonance as long as there is a certain kind of mood or atmosphere which they want to keep (think contemporary music based on background drones or ostinatos).

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,285
E
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,285
Originally Posted by Visalia
pedal use when doing something like an out of key chromatic note.


Thank you


are you talking about playing a wrong note?

Last edited by emenelton; 12/10/21 10:51 AM.
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 267
V
Visalia Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by emenelton
Originally Posted by Visalia
pedal use when doing something like an out of key chromatic note.


Thank you


are you talking about playing a wrong note?
No. I'm talking about a passing note, as I think it's called. Or maybe something like sliding from the minor 3rd to the major 3rd

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,176
D
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,176
Can you put up an example of something you're aiming at - perhaps a snippit of a recording? Suggestions might possibly follow.

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,285
E
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,285
Originally Posted by Visalia
Originally Posted by emenelton
Originally Posted by Visalia
pedal use when doing something like an out of key chromatic note.


Thank you


are you talking about playing a wrong note?
No. I'm talking about a passing note, as I think it's called. Or maybe something like sliding from the minor 3rd to the major 3rd


A run would suggest no pedal but a bluesy grace note could be pedaled.

A teacher would coach you, that’s a normal ‘listen and tutor’ task a teacher performs.

A good way to start is pedal on chordal, to sustain so you can reposition to the next chord and release the pedal as you play the next.

Depending on your instrument(dp) pedaling can be inconsequential or a total mess.

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 267
V
Visalia Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by dire tonic
Can you put up an example of something you're aiming at - perhaps a snippit of a recording? Suggestions might possibly follow.
Thanks,

Yes, here at the 0:49 mark there's an F# chord played at the very end of the measure with a G chord. How does he tackle the pedal?



I've also learned this one below. Now I'll admit I didn't really try figure out the pedal pedal work for it yet, but my initial opinion is that it seems to sound like it's somewhere between pedal being used, and no pedal at all!


Last edited by Visalia; 12/12/21 11:15 AM.
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,499
N
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,499
Originally Posted by Visalia
,

Yes, here at the 0:49 mark there's an F# chord played at the very end of the measure with a G chord. How does he tackle the pedal?
c

You can play with a half pedal without any problems. B natural in the left hand slightly pollutes the sound; G would be better.

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 267
V
Visalia Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by Visalia
,

Yes, here at the 0:49 mark there's an F# chord played at the very end of the measure with a G chord. How does he tackle the pedal?
c

You can play with a half pedal without any problems. B natural in the left hand slightly pollutes the sound; G would be better.
You say you can get 22 positions. Is there various degrees with a pedal that's attached to an electronic keyboard as well? Or is it just all or nothing?

And how can you tell the position so well to be able to know there's 22 of em? That seems like quite an ability.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kaufen Sie den europäischen Führerschein online
by geraldo - 01/23/22 04:41 AM
Führerschein legal in Deutschland kaufen
by geraldo - 01/23/22 04:15 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!

Free Piano Lovers Newsletter is out now!
Piano News 2021 - 2022!
---------------------
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics211,314
Posts3,163,258
Members104,120
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5