2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
50 members (anotherscott, 36251, DigitalSpace, ebonyk, DSC, Brendan, David Lai, 13 invisible), 726 guests, and 319 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 202
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 202
The extra bar gives the band more time to adapt to the tempo, rhythm and feel. More bars are added as the tempo increases (or whenever the band leader deems necessary). So for instance:

1-2-3-4 (slow)
1-2 1-2-3-4 (medium/fast)
1-2 1-2 1-2-3-4 (very fast)

The extra bars are counted differently to avoid confusion and make it clear when to actually begin playing (always after the 4 unless the song has a pick-up). Imagine you would count-off 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4. Your band members wouldn't know if you are using a single or a double beat count-off.

Last edited by Montuno; 01/01/22 09:05 PM.

Casio Privia PX-150 - Pianoteq
Working on Classical Piano Method (Hans-Günter Heumann)

My Music
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 32,417
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 32,417
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 202
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?

Because they don't need to get the tempo etc. from the counting, only when to start.


Casio Privia PX-150 - Pianoteq
Working on Classical Piano Method (Hans-Günter Heumann)

My Music
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,272
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?
It's a mystery.


Learner
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,503
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,503
Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?
It's a mystery.


Could it be that the accompanist actually maintains the best?


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,272
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,272
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?


My friend Google suggested this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/15/nyregion/in-person-never-stop-moving.html?searchResultPosition=1


Learner
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,503
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,503
Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?


My friend Google suggested this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/15/nyregion/in-person-never-stop-moving.html?searchResultPosition=1

My friend, the NYT, will not let me read the article without a subscription


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 32,417
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 32,417
Originally Posted by Montuno
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?

Because they don't need to get the tempo etc. from the counting, only when to start.
Why wouldn't they need the tempo? They dance in time to the music, right?

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,503
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,503
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Montuno
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?

Because they don't need to get the tempo etc. from the counting, only when to start.
Why wouldn't they need the tempo? They dance in time to the music, right?


Because they get thd tempo from the mudic, snd the beat is maintained by the music. Just a thought without evidence.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 202
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by Montuno
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?

Because they don't need to get the tempo etc. from the counting, only when to start.

And, to answer the question why they don't count a single measure 1-2-3-4: dancers think in double beats since they often combine two beats for one full pattern. For instance, in LA style salsa dancing (which is the most danced salsa style worldwide), the basic pattern is:

1 - left foot forward
2 - transfer weight
3 - LF back to starting position
4 - break

5 - right foot backward
6 - transfer weight
7 - RF back to starting position
8 - break

(this is for leaders, followers obviously reverse the movements)

So one pattern is 8 beats long. That's why dancers count to eight. A lot of dance music reflects this by having phrases of two measures long.


Casio Privia PX-150 - Pianoteq
Working on Classical Piano Method (Hans-Günter Heumann)

My Music
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 202
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Montuno
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?

Because they don't need to get the tempo etc. from the counting, only when to start.
Why wouldn't they need the tempo? They dance in time to the music, right?


Because they get thd tempo from the mudic, snd the beat is maintained by the music. Just a thought without evidence.

That's correct.


Casio Privia PX-150 - Pianoteq
Working on Classical Piano Method (Hans-Günter Heumann)

My Music
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,503
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,503
@Montuno
Thanks much!


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,712
N
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,712
Montuno, you got ahead of me. On leading musical instruments, only fingers and hands move, the movements of which fit into the usual counting . The dancer has inside the loop doubled the number of moving limbs, which naturally influenced the counting.

Last edited by Nahum; 01/02/22 01:31 PM.
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 693
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 693
Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why do dancers only count 5-6-7-8?
It's a mystery.

I answered this.

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 608
MRC Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 608
Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by fatar760
Quote
they counted:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 6, 7, AND 8

Because evidently, dancers can only count to 8. No more no less.

Dancers frame their choreography (generally) in 8 beat phrases - which is why the count up to 8. However, I've rarely worked with a dance company that require a full count of 8 to begin - normally a 5,6,7,8 or just 7,8 will suffice.

Maybe it was easier for the choreographer on this show, baring in mind they were working with kids, to give the full 8 counts as they needed that long to get ready to start.

Seven got 2 beats and AND got one beat. I think 8 got 3. I don't remember how they counted the kids in. I was always just amused by the counting. I guess it worked for them; the music is in 6/8.

Ah, yes, I'm familiar with this sort of choreographer. I expect it went:

One two three four five six se-ven and eight () ()

making up two bars of 6/8.


Steinway A grand (1919), Richard Lipp grand (1913), Yamaha P2 upright (1983), Kawai ES-100 (2019)
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 987
R
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 987
Interestingly, the version that goes on in my head is:
a 1, a 2, a 1, 2, 3, 4. Anyone else with me?

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 824
P
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 824
In my first piano lesson in the New year, my teacher, who is a performing musician. The first 1 2 is to set the half note/minin beat, and the last 4 count is to set the quarter note/crochet note bear. This makes more sense to me.

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 693
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 693
Originally Posted by Pianoperformance
In my first piano lesson in the New year, my teacher, who is a performing musician. The first 1 2 is to set the half note/minin beat, and the last 4 count is to set the quarter note/crochet note bear. This makes more sense to me.

And what if it's in a time signature other than 4/4?

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 824
P
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 824
Originally Posted by fatar760
Originally Posted by Pianoperformance
In my first piano lesson in the New year, my teacher, who is a performing musician. The first 1 2 is to set the half note/minin beat, and the last 4 count is to set the quarter note/crochet note bear. This makes more sense to me.

And what if it's in a time signature other than 4/4?

This is just an example of how to get everyone on ‘the beat’. Seriously, I don’t need to spell all the time signatures for you?

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 693
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 693
Originally Posted by Pianoperformance
Originally Posted by fatar760
Originally Posted by Pianoperformance
In my first piano lesson in the New year, my teacher, who is a performing musician. The first 1 2 is to set the half note/minin beat, and the last 4 count is to set the quarter note/crochet note bear. This makes more sense to me.

And what if it's in a time signature other than 4/4?

This is just an example of how to get everyone on ‘the beat’. Seriously, I don’t need to spell all the time signatures for you?

You don't. My point is that it's not really a helpful way to count-in and seldom do I see it used.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
does anyone know how tall richter was
by pablobear - 05/25/22 08:17 PM
Best piano app for android
by Kihar - 05/25/22 12:54 PM
I left my piano school today
by Animisha - 05/25/22 12:33 PM
Drummer need suggestion for piano style
by Wundebober - 05/25/22 12:08 PM
6 Pin DIN connector for Williams sustain pedal?
by emaydeoh - 05/25/22 11:18 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics213,235
Posts3,194,506
Members105,373
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5