2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
63 members (BMKE, Brendan, 36251, Andrew E., AndrewJCW, brdwyguy, ambrozy, 15 invisible), 619 guests, and 286 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,048
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,048
Music Minus One (mentioned above by dogperson) come with a two piano score. You can follow the orchestral parts quite easily reading the piano reduction.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 30,725
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 30,725
You could learn the J. Christian Bach sonatas that Mozart adapted into concertos. Then if you find a couple of violinists and a cellist or bass, you could play them as concertos. Schott publishes the score and parts.


Semipro Tech
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,421
S
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by brdwyguy
Hakki - thank you so much for the suggestions
dogperson - thank you, that is a GREAT idea. wink

To be honnest, unless you can get an orchestra backing tape or at a minimum get a second pianist to play the orchestra, I dont see what would be the purpose of learning the piano part only ?

In addition you do need to know what is the full orchestra score to understand how the piano part will fit in, the piano reduction being an approximation. For certain concerto, like Bach, the piano is playing along the orchestra as well as in true solo.


Blüthner model 6
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,780
H
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,780
You might try the Mendelssohn Concerto No.1
It is an advanced concerto, but you can play the video in 0.25, 0.5 speed for practice.

Here is first and third movement orchestra parts played with piano and metronome.






Or you might try the Schumann:


Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,686
B
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 15,686
Originally Posted by Sidokar
To be honnest, unless you can get an orchestra backing tape or at a minimum get a second pianist to play the orchestra, I dont see what would be the purpose of learning the piano part only ?
With Mozart and Haydn concertos, you can play both piano and orchestral parts (in tuttis), switching from one to the other as the occasion demands, adding important lines from the orchestral part if there is a hand or several fingers free in the solo part.

I learnt several Mozart concertos thus, and had a great time playing them. I've never played with orchestra.

Quote
In addition you do need to know what is the full orchestra score to understand how the piano part will fit in, the piano reduction being an approximation.
No, you don't need to study the full orchestral score, if that's what you're saying. I don't own any full scores of the concertos I've learnt.

You just need to know what the orchestral part sounds like, and when instrumental lines are dovetailing with the piano part (incorporating them if possible). You would write down "oboe", "clarinet" etc above the second piano (= orchestra) part depending on which instrument was playing those lines, if necessary, so you have some idea of which instrument you are accompanying on piano. Many pianists playing concertos for the first time with orchestra have never seen the full score: they just rehearsed with their teacher playing on second piano (having listened of course to recordings), then straight to orchestral rehearsal, adapting their dynamics, voicing, pedalling etc as required.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
500 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
bennevis ----- BINGO! That is exactly what I do! TY TY TY
I am leaning towards the harder Beethoven 5th, since I have heard it dozens and dozens of time, so I know it the best.
I have also worked on different sections- probably the easier parts wink

reading what others have said, I get the impression that Concerto's are for Advanced Players only who are proficient enough to read right thru the score.

All my life I had teachers hold me back, saying "that is too advanced for your ability right now"

When I was young (7yo) It was Over the Rainbow
When I was 15yo it was full Broadway Vocal Scores
When I was 18yo it was several Classical Pieces

Well I am 65you, retired and I have NO ONE to hold me back
I have my Steinway
I have my, what I would call, Freedom - to Play, AND Learn - Whatever I wish! smile
and that is what I plan on doing

The Beethoven 5th!

Im going to get the UrText Henle edition and follow along with a YouTube Video of different performers.


thanks to all for advice, comments and samples
any more thoughts always appreciated
also on my decision?


brdwyguy
JDM


1961-1964: Lester or Emerson Upright
1969-1992: Westbrook Spinet
1991-2021: Schomacker Model A (1912) "Schoowie"
2021-Present: Steinway Model A (1912) "Amalia"

To Listen to my Music is to know me. To know me all you need do is listen to my music.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
500 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
I have played thru the Beginning, the Ending and the Adagio of the Emperor.
Are they, I assume, the easier parts?

Last edited by brdwyguy; 01/28/22 10:57 AM.

1961-1964: Lester or Emerson Upright
1969-1992: Westbrook Spinet
1991-2021: Schomacker Model A (1912) "Schoowie"
2021-Present: Steinway Model A (1912) "Amalia"

To Listen to my Music is to know me. To know me all you need do is listen to my music.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Originally Posted by brdwyguy
I have played thru the Beginning, the Ending and the Adagio of the Emperor.
Are they, I assume, the easier parts?

Here’s the score, played by Brendel, so you can asses the difficulty



"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
500 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
Thanks dogperson
you are one of the best! wink

brdwyguy
JDM


1961-1964: Lester or Emerson Upright
1969-1992: Westbrook Spinet
1991-2021: Schomacker Model A (1912) "Schoowie"
2021-Present: Steinway Model A (1912) "Amalia"

To Listen to my Music is to know me. To know me all you need do is listen to my music.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,780
H
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,780
Originally Posted by brdwyguy
I have played thru the Beginning, the Ending and the Adagio of the Emperor.
Are they, I assume, the easier parts?

If you have good trills, scales, arpeggios, broken octaves than you might play this concerto in a moderate tempo.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,421
S
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,421
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Sidokar
To be honnest, unless you can get an orchestra backing tape or at a minimum get a second pianist to play the orchestra, I dont see what would be the purpose of learning the piano part only ?
With Mozart and Haydn concertos, you can play both piano and orchestral parts (in tuttis), switching from one to the other as the occasion demands, adding important lines from the orchestral part if there is a hand or several fingers free in the solo part.

I learnt several Mozart concertos thus, and had a great time playing them. I've never played with orchestra.

Quote
In addition you do need to know what is the full orchestra score to understand how the piano part will fit in, the piano reduction being an approximation.
No, you don't need to study the full orchestral score, if that's what you're saying. I don't own any full scores of the concertos I've learnt.

You just need to know what the orchestral part sounds like, and when instrumental lines are dovetailing with the piano part (incorporating them if possible). You would write down "oboe", "clarinet" etc above the second piano (= orchestra) part depending on which instrument was playing those lines, if necessary, so you have some idea of which instrument you are accompanying on piano. Many pianists playing concertos for the first time with orchestra have never seen the full score: they just rehearsed with their teacher playing on second piano (having listened of course to recordings), then straight to orchestral rehearsal, adapting their dynamics, voicing, pedalling etc as required.


That would work for certain concerto but not others, typically not possible to do that with Bach, at least not for the whole mouvement. Yes of course you can always approach it by simulating the orchestra, but many times there are more than one instruments playing and the second piano part will not give the exact color unless one us constantly referring to a recorded version. At least for me i prefer to look at the full score so i can precisely relate what the orchestra does and my part. In any case, for an intermediate player, unless he can perform against a tape or with another player in real situation, i dont see what the interest might be. But thats just my point of view.


Blüthner model 6
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,016
N
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,016
Hope this will help you (as it helped me :-)




Last edited by newport; 01/28/22 10:26 PM.
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,644
T
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,644
A lot of students would start with the Bach Italian in F. It's a concerto written for solo keyboard (without orchestral accompaniment). The piece does have a lot of scale runs & some jumps. Unlike later concertos, the octave range is limited because many of the keyboard instruments in his day only had 61 keys.

Performing any of the 3 movements does not require accompaniment. The fast first & last movements start with an exposition section and end with the same. Depending on your tempo the first movement is barely 4 min. long. The last mvt is also short so the piece can be memorized easily.


Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
500 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
Thank You newport & the pianoplayer
I know I can search these on YouTube but so much better getting them from people here on the forum.

greatly appreciate
and love to watch them!

brdwyguy

Last edited by brdwyguy; 01/29/22 08:13 AM.

1961-1964: Lester or Emerson Upright
1969-1992: Westbrook Spinet
1991-2021: Schomacker Model A (1912) "Schoowie"
2021-Present: Steinway Model A (1912) "Amalia"

To Listen to my Music is to know me. To know me all you need do is listen to my music.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
500 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
I also learned this Bach Concerto in D - many years ago 1975ish!



1961-1964: Lester or Emerson Upright
1969-1992: Westbrook Spinet
1991-2021: Schomacker Model A (1912) "Schoowie"
2021-Present: Steinway Model A (1912) "Amalia"

To Listen to my Music is to know me. To know me all you need do is listen to my music.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
500 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
and I am totally in love with this Musical Prodigy!
This is from 2014 - he is a little older now but check out his YouTube videos
I couldn't believe my eyes or ears

Alexander Malofeev - jaw-dropping

(Prokofiev - 2014)
and
(Grieg - 2014)



and also on the more pop side I am also in love with this guy and his arrangements
watch the EMOTION on his face while he is playing.


Francesco Parrino - youtube sensation
(Moon River)

(The Swan)

Last edited by brdwyguy; 01/29/22 08:44 AM.

1961-1964: Lester or Emerson Upright
1969-1992: Westbrook Spinet
1991-2021: Schomacker Model A (1912) "Schoowie"
2021-Present: Steinway Model A (1912) "Amalia"

To Listen to my Music is to know me. To know me all you need do is listen to my music.
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 192
F
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 192
Originally Posted by brdwyguy
I have two Questions I would like to ask about Piano Concerto's

#1 What would be a good full Piano Concerto to learn as an Intermediate Pianist's 1st attempt?
Not for performance but just as a personal learning experience.


thank you
Brdwyguy

I can give you my opinion on the first one.

The best concerti for pianists who have never touched a concerto before, vary on what a pianist is comfortable with.

I would suggest one of these:

Grieg in A minor
Kabalevsky #3 in D major
Beethoven #2 in B-flat major
Mozart #12 in A major

Stay away from these, because of the musical difficulty:

Mozart #15 in B-flat
Mozart #20 in D minor
Beethoven #4 in G major
Beethoven #5 in E-flat major
Beethoven #1 in C major
Saint-Saëns #4 in C minor
Schumann in A minor

Stay away from these, because of the technical difficulty:

Rachmaninoff #3 in D minor
Rachmaninoff #2 in C minor
Liszt #2 in A major
Tchaikovsky #1 in B-flat minor
Weber #2 in E-flat major

Last edited by FarazIsLivingLife; 01/30/22 10:27 PM.

Pianist-in-training who changes his signature...alot.

I believe certain composers and their pieces in the less-played repertoire ought to be re-examined.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Faraz
What a nice list! However, he’s already made the decision to choose Beethoven 5

I’m sure this question will come up again, and your list will be very useful 😊


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,040
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,040
Originally Posted by dogperson
Faraz
What a nice list! However, he’s already made the decision to choose Beethoven 5

I’m sure this question will come up again, and your list will be very useful 😊
The OP has already decided but for other people this is actually a very useful list.

I was thinking about that and I think a better starting point for someone like me who only ever played solo piano is to work on simpler collaborative pieces like duets, trios, and mabe some chamber music rather than those "easy" concertos. I'll see what I can find on Tomplay.

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
500 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
Faraz
Thank You So Much
Those are great LISTS!

brdwyguy


1961-1964: Lester or Emerson Upright
1969-1992: Westbrook Spinet
1991-2021: Schomacker Model A (1912) "Schoowie"
2021-Present: Steinway Model A (1912) "Amalia"

To Listen to my Music is to know me. To know me all you need do is listen to my music.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Dissonant overtones when mute rail is engaged
by MattH22 - 08/11/22 08:36 PM
Your piano teacher
by Dscally - 08/11/22 07:25 PM
To RD-2000 owners
by PianoStartsAt33 - 08/11/22 07:18 PM
Buying a Yamaha U1?
by ada d. - 08/11/22 05:31 PM
What does a bouncy key action mean?
by Raquel Cruz - 08/11/22 04:38 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics214,349
Posts3,215,587
Members106,065
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5