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Originally Posted by pianoplayer40000
Sorry correction *VPC1 by Kawai
laugh

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The CVP, as it stands today, should not even exist, yet Yamaha stubbornly disagrees, and perhaps this is because there are plenty of suckers out there willing to pay a premium for average, no, strike that; a premium for crap!

IMHO!

I'm glad you are finally using the IMHO but I think you need to know when to use IMHO as opposed to using IMO. For in this case, the above was not to humble but your opinion on the matter is spot on laugh

Carry on my good chap!


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
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Originally Posted by pianoplayer40000
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by pianoplayer40000
Does anyone know if the MP11SE have built in speakers? I cant find an answer anywhere lol. Im pretty certain it does due to it having built in sounds but I cant find anything about how good the speakers are etc.
No built in speakers.



Oh that is interesting. What are some good monitors I can have that will be able to be hooked up to the Keyboard and my PC at the same time? Ill need an audio interface wont I? This becomes more expensive.

No studio gear comes with speakers. You need to buy everything individually. Remember those all-in-one fax machines? The print/scan/quality and practically everything these machines have is pure garbage.

The same goes for all-in-one keyboards.

Included audion interfaces: You will never be able to hook mics to them, crappy preamps too.
Included speakers and amps: Poor output, limited freq range, and unknown performance.

MP11SE (there is no slab in the market to compete with this keyboard, forget about Yamaha and Roland and Korg). Simply no keyboard is in the same category as this keyboard. It has long grand piano-style action. It has escapement and all other bells and whistles an action should have to feel like a grand piano.

Roland: PHA-50 not even close, Roland's piano sound is synthesized, there is simply no acoustic piano in the world (has ever been manufactured) that sounds like Roland.
Yamaha: Won't give you the same action unless you spend 2-3 times more money. Also, Yamaha sounds weak (IMHO).
Forget about everything else if piano matters to you.

No keyboard manufacturer in the market makes piano-like action only:

Kawai, Yamaha, and Roland "."


I'm going to give an example of a really good setup to start with:
1- MP11SE
2- MOTOR 49 or 61 if you can find one!
3- Yamaha HS7 monitor speakers
4- MOTU M4
5- Keyboard stand and speakers stand: ~$150/$200+$50
6- $50 for cables. Get 3-meter cables (10ft).

You can also purchase MOTU M2 and HS5 to lower your budget but I highly discourage you. Add to those some $100 for pads and cables. You can buy speaker stands used or brand new later on.

This is a perfect setup to start with.


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Originally Posted by pianoplayer40000
Should I consider the CVP1? it's about $1000 less and my main use is midi which is what it's designed for. I will need to give some thought now.

No, don't do it. MP11SE sounds really good. After having it, you will hardly ever use a piano VST. IT IS THAT GOOD!

There is a thread about VSTs vs internal instrument sounds and based on what I saw, the majority of Kawai MP series users don't use VSTs much. This is not the same for Roland and Yamaha users laugh


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Originally Posted by Pete14
The CVP, as it stands today, should not even exist, yet Yamaha stubbornly disagrees, and perhaps this is because there are plenty of suckers out there willing to pay a premium for average, no, strike that; a premium for crap!

IMHO!


CVP series:

Grand Touch (Natural Wood)
Sound of CLP series
Everything inside Genos
Speakers and Amps: (40W + 30W + 20W) × 2 + 80W

So CVP is a Genos inside a CLP.

If CVP shouldn't exist, then CLP and Genos shouldn't be there in the first place.

If CLP and Genos are outdated garbages, then P-515 is for sure an absolute outdated garbage then... puns intended

Last edited by Abdol; 03/11/22 01:02 PM.

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Originally Posted by pianoplayer40000
Sorry correction *VPC1 by Kawai

It's a piano controller with no onboard sounds or any other functions. It comes in a beautiful case and some sockets in the back.
Basically, it's for people who want to play piano and nothing else---with the aid of a VSTi like pianoteq or Garritan CFX grand etc., and a laptop.

[Linked Image]

So probably the MP7SE/MP11SE is more according to your initial post: onboard sounds, mod wheel/pitch bend, midi control etc.

Last edited by Doug M.; 03/11/22 01:13 PM.

Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
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Originally Posted by EPW
Quote
The CVP, as it stands today, should not even exist, yet Yamaha stubbornly disagrees, and perhaps this is because there are plenty of suckers out there willing to pay a premium for average, no, strike that; a premium for crap!

IMHO!

I'm glad you are finally using the IMHO but I think you need to know when to use IMHO as opposed to using IMO. For in this case, the above was not to humble but your opinion on the matter is spot on laugh
🤣

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Thank you all for your help. I think I'm gonna go with the MP11SE. By the sounds of it I won't be getting one for quite some time due to covid and Australia not getting much shipment (probably end of the year) but that is fine with me, I have a setup for the time being.

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As long as you're happy to wait, I can't see you regretting getting one, There's no denying the quality, and in my experience with my own initial personal impressions is that you need to give yourself time to adjust to it, and there's lots of tweaking to be done, both on the keyboard and in your DAW. And then I'm sure you will end up being very happy with it smile

Last edited by Deltajockey; 03/11/22 09:43 PM.

The companions I can't live without: Kawai Acoustic Grand, Kawai MP11SE, Kronos2-73, Yamaha Montage8, Korg D1
Other important stuff: Studiologic NC2X, NI Komplete Ultimate 11, Sonuscore Elysion and Orchestra, Pianoteq 7, Experimenta Due.
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I have actually found a place that has the MP11SE in stock for local pickup. And not only that but they said they are happy to take a brand new one out of the box for me to test before buying! That was really unexpected as it probably will lose some value after that so that's really nice of them.

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Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by pianoplayer40000
Should I consider the CVP1? it's about $1000 less and my main use is midi which is what it's designed for. I will need to give some thought now.

No, don't do it. MP11SE sounds really good. After having it, you will hardly ever use a piano VST. IT IS THAT GOOD!

There is a thread about VSTs vs internal instrument sounds and based on what I saw, the majority of Kawai MP series users don't use VSTs much. This is not the same for Roland and Yamaha users laugh

That is not true. You have to buy VSTs , because you only have 40 sounds. 😂

Last edited by klausi6; 04/05/22 08:44 AM.

Roland RD 2000, Casio PX S3100, AKX10, iLoud MTM
VSL,Noire,Grandeur, BecDig,Ptq7.5,Rav275, etc.

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Hi all, I tried the MP11SE the other day for the first time, the first thing I noticed is that the action was heavy/stiff. This piano was brand new out of the box, is this normal or am I just not used to this? It wasnt THAT bad but I currently have a Yamaha Arius YDP-V240 and its very light. It may be due to the fact that im not used to it. Regardless the quality of it felt extremely nice and the sounds are amazing. I was in a rush so only got about 20 minutes of play time. I think im gonna head back there for another play and if I like it ill get one then and there. The second step is some speakers, audio interface, and a nice stand that wont move around too much. I am looking at HS5's for speakers. I was considering HS7's but my room is tiny, and ive heard smaller speakers for smaller rooms is better, is this true? If so ill go with the HS5's. In terms of an audio interface I really have no idea what I need or how much it costs for a decent interface. And for a stand ive seen a few around but they are like $500, am I gonna have to pay around this price for a stand that will be nice and sturdy? If you have any answers for me please let me know smile. Thank you


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Hello,

@pianoplayer40000 / Micah, Assuming the MP11SE you played is in perfect condition, then probably it is indeed that you're not used to it. That action is really good, and in a completely different league than the GHS action you are used to. Note that Kawai's Grand Feel is primarily a piano-focused action.

As for speakers, that is a world of their own with many variables. Solely as a rule of thumb, and from my experience as well, yes a speaker can be too big for a smaller room.

As for an audio interface, the PreSonus Studio range of interfaces is lovely. You can pick a smaller or larger one as needed, depending on the number of channels and the connection types you need.

A stand doesn't need to be $500 at all. I use a Stagg MXS-A1 which I paid the equivalent of like $70 for and sits like a rock. The K&M brand does similar (the same?) stands which are well regarded too. Their type numbers are 18950 or 18953. I do not spot significant technical differences (if any) compared to my Stagg, yet the K&Ms are more than twice the price.

Cheers and happy decision making,

HZ

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Hello,

PS: Use a dust cover! I happily use the Kawai DC-L and DC-XL (the latter being of a size suitable for the MP11SE -- I assume -- so please be sure to check that).

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

PPS: Prices I mentioned in the previous post are USD estimates.

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Originally Posted by Abdol
No studio gear comes with speakers. You need to buy everything individually. Remember those all-in-one fax machines? The print/scan/quality and practically everything these machines have is pure garbage.

The same goes for all-in-one keyboards.

That's not always the case. It can depend on how much you want to pay .... or need to pay. Eg. Ricoh, Kyocera, HP etc have business-end machines that give very high quality results. But sure ...... they might need their servicing every once in a while .... depending on how much use or abuse they get.

Those cheaper machines aren't garbage. They serve their purpose nicely for many people.

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I should more accurately 'say' that some of those cheaper all-in-one machines aren't garbage. They serve their purpose nicely for many people. Although ..... by design ... at least some had poor designs .... poor reliability. The machine wasn't the garbage. The design team was putting in some poor effort for certain models. Or rather ..... the ones that design the ink system - including injection/nozzle systems that clog or dry up after a while ...... no fault of the end-user ..... was pretty poor. And probably is still pretty poor for some systems.

The laser printer cartridge systems ..... more expensive ... but generally better reliability and quality.

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Originally Posted by pianoplayer40000
Hi all, I tried the MP11SE the other day for the first time, the first thing I noticed is that the action was heavy/stiff. This piano was brand new out of the box, is this normal or am I just not used to this? It wasnt THAT bad but I currently have a Yamaha Arius YDP-V240 and its very light. It may be due to the fact that im not used to it. Regardless the quality of it felt extremely nice and the sounds are amazing. I was in a rush so only got about 20 minutes of play time. I think im gonna head back there for another play and if I like it ill get one then and there. The second step is some speakers, audio interface, and a nice stand that wont move around too much. I am looking at HS5's for speakers. I was considering HS7's but my room is tiny, and ive heard smaller speakers for smaller rooms is better, is this true? If so ill go with the HS5's. In terms of an audio interface I really have no idea what I need or how much it costs for a decent interface. And for a stand ive seen a few around but they are like $500, am I gonna have to pay around this price for a stand that will be nice and sturdy? If you have any answers for me please let me know smile. Thank you


Micah.

Hi Micah,

Brand new instruments tend to take about a month of regular playing before that initial stiffness loosens up. Often people test a demo instrument in-store but complain after purchase that the action of their new piano is stiff.

The feeling if the action may also be much different from your current action. It may take time for the biomechanics program in your brain to update so that your playing technique feels natural.

The analogy I find useful is when you buy computer glasses. Computer glasses are specifically designed to provide optimal vision for a screen 2-3 feet away---the normal distance people sit from their monitor. If you have glasses for driving or reading, and suddenly, you walk out of SpecSavers with a pair of computer glasses on, you find yourself having trouble walking. Your brain knows how far your feet are from your head, but computer glasses are telling the brain that the feet are closer. Thus, one trips up.

Similarly, the slight differences in key-dip, the force required to overcome the key's inertia, the differences in downweight, the difference in key return speed and unweight etc
..

Getting used to all these differences takes a few practice sessions.


Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
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I have the HS5's. In a small room. I like em. JBL 305's are also great and bit cheaper.

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Originally Posted by Micah-
I am looking at HS5's for speakers. I was considering HS7's but my room is tiny, and ive heard smaller speakers for smaller rooms is better, is this true? If so ill go with the HS5's.

.

i have the hs7s as studio monitors in a small room. they are fine but the hs5s will probably do you.

depending on what kind of music you're planning to record/produce, you might want to get a sub since you miss all those low frequency sounds on 5" and 7" speakers - ok if you're just recording piano-based music or even rock or jazz (non-professionally anyway), but not if you're doing anything that's bass heavy

i recently got the eris sub 8 and am very happy with it. if i were buying monitors from scratch now, i would go and listen to the eris studio monitors with the eris sub 8. you might find that you can get a combination of these that is cheaper yet overall a better monitoring package than a pair of hs5s

Just a btw ... if you're not worried about playing *piano*, then any decent, basic 61 key synth-action midi controller is the best keyboard to start home music production. you'll save a lot of money (and some desk space) on the keyboard that you can spend on a good daw and quality vsts (for pianos and for other instruments too).

no keyboard is going to give you good drum, bass, guitar, horn, orchestra sounds if you're serious about recording/producing quality music (as opposed to playing and recording for your own enjoyment).

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Or perhaps the new Roland Fantom 08.
PH4 key action, drum pads, full DAW control from the keyboard , 4x32 USB Audiointerface etc.

It is the little brother of the Fantom workstation
And much cheaper and lighter.


Roland RD 2000, Casio PX S3100, AKX10, iLoud MTM
VSL,Noire,Grandeur, BecDig,Ptq7.5,Rav275, etc.

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