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Taushi, there are posts where Abdol praises some qualities of Yamaha. If memory serves, not too long ago his brother bought a Yamaha DP (not sure why, availability or cost) with his full support.
As mentioned before, he was most probably trolling some Y fanboys, especially Pete14. Yes, he has some criticisms to Y, but most of the times he does not bash Y gratuituously.
Before you can make that claim you need to ask every person in the world and get a negative response. I know you haven't done that because I haven't been asked.
Had you asked me if I like bright sounds I would have replied, "Yes, Of course I do. That's one of the many reasons that I felt compelled to buy a Roland RD 700NX."
RD-700 NX is a digital.
Try to buy a bright sounding acoustic and then get back to me when you dicided to sell it.
That's a fairly silly comment, IMO.
FYI the title of this forum is, "Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards". Why would I buy an acoustic piano? I would want a Roland.
Get back to me when you can keep up.
Out of interest for you, a month or so ago Bonners, an English music instrument retailer, had a Roland VP1 for sale at £1700. While I was humming and hawing over it some body bought it. Ah... those full silver strings....
Kawai digital pianos sounded far better than any Yamaha digital piano even 2 decades ago!
2 decades ago, Yamaha digital pianos sounded so bad that they weren't even close to their own acoustic grands. The sound of a Kawai MP5 is far better than any ROMplers Yamaha used to manufacture back in 2000s'.
Speaking of today, Yamaha still focuses on bright-sounding DPs although it has acoustic grands like the SX series.
Hope it's clear now.
1- I'm talking about digital pianos 2- You're not in a position to instruct and lecture me on what to post and what not to post.
Abdol, I think you make a meaningless, if not unfair, comparison of products related to two serious and distinguished companies. I mean your initial post in this thread. Personally I don't care about Yanny's music, and pianos in your examples have heavily processed sound, not to mention that co-sounding of piano with as heavily processed sounds of other instruments makes the comparison nearly impossible. IMO, this music would sound almost the same in a cheap ($200-300) Yamaha instrument.
Maybe the concept of stage piano should be defined more specifically.
Can you please define it here, relating or not relating to the genres of played music?
For me, the quality of a digital piano is related to a possibility to extract tiny timbral nuances of the performance, which correlate with the soul and the talent of the performer. Heavy audio processing contradicts to this, but maybe this view does not coincide with what you intended to show in this post?
IMO presenting music of Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, Prokofiev, Mozart, Beethoven, played on a DP, would better serve for comparison of the instruments.
For me, the quality of a digital piano is related to a possibility to extract tiny timbral nuances of the performance, which correlate with the soul and the talent of the performer. Heavy audio processing contradicts to this, but maybe this view does not coincide with what you intended to show in this post?
Yamaha is the king when it comes to processed samples!
Before CP1 every single Yamaha DP lacked: 1- Number of samples (far less than 88) 2- Ver short samples (less than 1sec!) 3- 1-2 layers
To give you an idea, CP1 samples were somewhere between ~1 to ~1.5 seconds!
That's why the MP series sounded far better than any Yamaha DP two decades ago. Because Yamaha hadn't even invested in this segment yet! While Yamaha was manufacturing AWM1-2 craps left and right, Kawai (and Roland) were making instruments that were actually far more complex.
Yamaha ditched the CP series for decades! The first CP resurfaced in the mid-2000s. CP-300 was Yamaha's first CP series after a while, it was the successor of the P-250.
That speaks a lot! Mostly due to the competition, the sales were declining so Yamaha decided to catch up. How did they implement it?
By fooling the customers, all they needed to do was to put a C next to the P series they were manufacturing and call it a "stage piano". But we all know how the internals of these DPs manufactured by Yamaha work: only very few short samples.
Kawai MP5 was released in 2006 I guess, the same year Yamaha released CP300.
Speaking of action, Kawai always had (and have) the upperhands since I learnt about stage pianos.
The important 'thing' is ----- bulk of customers are satisfied with their instruments, and those instruments are useful to them. And those instruments does the job. Suits the application.
Being fixed on 'this sounded better than any of that even 2 decades ago', and continuing to be dead-set focused on it in this way ----- including making meaningless statements about it -- is a case of OCD or flamebait, or a combination. It actually appears like flamebait - and it most likely is.
The important 'thing' is ----- bulk of customers are satisfied with their instruments, and those instruments are useful to them. And those instruments does the job. Suits the application.
Being fixed on 'this sounded better than any of that even 2 decades ago', and continuing to be dead-set focused on it in this way ----- including making meaningless statements about it -- is a case of OCD or flamebait, or a combination. It actually appears like flamebait - and it most likely is.
+1
Roland RD-2000 / Yamaha EW400 & Electone / lots o' synths
I used to own a CP1. Like every DP, it had its quirks, but sound quality wasn't one of them, as I remember it.
Sample length, layering, and stretching were typical for a DP of that era -- not better, not worse.
In fact, if you look at dewster's DPBSD tests from 2010 you will find the following:
MP5 sample lengths are (C1:C8): 3.0,1.8,1.6,1.5,1.6,1.0,?,? seconds CP1 sample lengths are (C2:C9) 3,2.2,2,1.8,1.7,1.3,1,0.8 seconds
MP5 stretch distances: 5,3(x8),2,4,3(x17),2 = 29 groups CP1 stretch distances: 3,3,4,4,4,2,4,3,1(x26),2,3,2,1,1,1,3,2,2,3,4,2,3,3,3 = 49 groups
MP5: "a very smoothly blended multi-velocity layer sample set (unknown layer count)" CP1: "a very smoothly blended 4 layer sample set with no audible layer switching"
I used to own a CP1. Like every DP, it had its quirks, but sound quality wasn't one of them, as I remember it.
Sample length, layering, and stretching were typical for a DP of that era -- not better, not worse.
In fact, if you look at dewster's DPBSD tests from 2010 you will find the following:
MP5 sample lengths are (C1:C8): 3.0,1.8,1.6,1.5,1.6,1.0,?,? seconds CP1 sample lengths are (C2:C9) 3,2.2,2,1.8,1.7,1.3,1,0.8 seconds
MP5 stretch distances: 5,3(x8),2,4,3(x17),2 = 29 groups CP1 stretch distances: 3,3,4,4,4,2,4,3,1(x26),2,3,2,1,1,1,3,2,2,3,4,2,3,3,3 = 49 groups
MP5: "a very smoothly blended multi-velocity layer sample set (unknown layer count)" CP1: "a very smoothly blended 4 layer sample set with no audible layer switching"
-jve
MP5 <> CP300
Although MP5 is 2-3 years older, its polyphony is 192 vs CP1's 120.
A fair comparison is to compare CP1 and Roland's V-Piano or MP10/MP6 with Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging (UPHI).
In addition to lower polyphony, CP1 isn't 88 keys sampled (the CP1 voice I've on my MOTIF XF isn't 88 keys sampled).
These types of topics on forums are always great theatre. Here is some more fuel for the fire. The following link is to a poll of “What keyboards brands you most often see being used in gigs (including yours)?“ and is a real world picture of where Kawai and its “best” sounding stage instruments stand in terms of usage by gigging keyboardists. Spoiler - currently tied for last 🙂
I created that topic. I was curious about what people that really gig (*) use and see on stage, once stage pianos ware mentioned here.
Even the humble Casio so despised by many in this forum scored better than Kawai. >:)
Now, more seriously, a few points: 1- Notice that in that poll, I added DPs and Synths/Workstations, and the poll result and comments not always specify what category (though most probably synths/workstations must be the most prevalent). 2- One user mentioned he saw a Kawai ES7 and an "MP-something" on jazz context. This user was probably who marked the "Kawai" option. 3- Nord is the winner in this poll, with Yamaha on a close second, Korg third and Roland fourth.
The OP of the present thread was a tease/trolling post. Nothing wrong with it at times, but the discussion heated at some point, which is silly (unfortunately, very common on PW).
The poll result does not mean Nord is better than Yamaha that is better than Korg that is better than Roland and that Kawai is the worst of them. Inferring that would be stupid. It only means that what is better for some is not necessarily for others. Even if I concede Kawai sound is better than Yamaha of the best (I do not), there are other things to consider when one picks a DP/Synth/WS and I am sure, in addition to brand preference, fitness for purpose is what has the greatest weight on the choice.
This is all I have to say for now.
(*) Around here in PW, there seems to be not as many as in KC.
Originally Posted by Farfisakid
These types of topics on forums are always great theatre. Here is some more fuel for the fire. The following link is to a poll of “What keyboards brands you most often see being used in gigs (including yours)?“ and is a real world picture of where Kawai and its “best” sounding stage instruments stand in terms of usage by gigging keyboardists. Spoiler - currently tied for last 🙂
These types of topics on forums are always great theatre. Here is some more fuel for the fire. The following link is to a poll of “What keyboards brands you most often see being used in gigs (including yours)?“ and is a real world picture of where Kawai and its “best” sounding stage instruments stand in terms of usage by gigging keyboardists. Spoiler - currently tied for last 🙂
That means nothing regarding how it sounds. Few things you should know:
1- Yamaha is the Coca-Cola of the music industry (you'll be surprised how much lobbying power this company has!). Yamaha can officially/unofficially sell its instruments in countries under the most strict international sanctions (I know because I'm coming from one). 2- Yamaha is the most available brand of musical instruments due to its strong financial backbone.
Kawai isn't even known in some countries and It doesn't even exist in some others. It's not the stats that tell you if an instrument is good or bad, your fingers and ears will tell how great an instrument is.
These sorts of polls and stats are purely irrelevant. Your analogy is like saying that since Toyota sold the most number of cars in 2021 it also makes the best quality/price car?
Toyota was only good in 1 segment in 2021, the best budget mid-sedan: Toyota Camry. The rest of the segments were taken by other manufacturers.
So please, do your homework before you throw these sorts of analogies.
Locutus wasn't designated a number like "Seven of Nine" , isn't he not?
#StarTrekPicard
I was actually mistaken. I thought Picard often called Will Riker his "number two", but now I think of it, Will was Picard's "number one" (first officer).
So my little joke just collapsed...
😉
HZ
oh, hahaha, no worries, that tagline is timeless...
I guess Chris Martin must have been that 1 who voted using or seeing a Kawai stage instrument versus the 51 keyboardists who reported not seeing any as of the latest totals :} For the record I love the Kawai sound and have spent many a day at Merriams School Of Music showrooms in Oakville and Vaughn. One of my students recently bought a Kawai GX3 partly based on my recommendation ...
I guess Chris Martin must have been that 1 who voted using or seeing a Kawai stage instrument versus the 51 keyboardists who reported not seeing any as of the latest totals :} For the record I love the Kawai sound and have spent many a day at Merriams School Of Music showrooms in Oakville and Vaughn. One of my students recently bought a Kawai GX3 partly based on my recommendation ...
Around these parts, the mix on stage is nearly 50/50 between Roland and Yamaha. Very occasionally I'll see a Nord or a Kurzweil, or even a Casio, but not once have I seen a Kawai. I'm talking about the pop/jazz/blues/country/cocktail scene, not classical concerts (I don't go to enough of those to have any meaningful data). They may sound and/or feel great, but nobody around here uses 'em, so it's kind of a moot point.
Last edited by OregonJim; 04/27/2212:01 AM.
Roland RD-2000 / Yamaha EW400 & Electone / lots o' synths
