2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
74 members (CentauriB, Appalachian, btcomm, Burkhard, 8ude, Anthem, AJB, 14 invisible), 722 guests, and 306 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 329
N
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 329
So I've been through a bit of 'fun' odyssey upgrading my Casio PX-560. I mainly use VSTs (although I like having internal sounds when necessary) and I've been starting to feel the limitations of the action and the *gasp* pivot point. Not the end of the world as the PX-560 has been lovely and utterly unproblematic otherwise, but stretchy chords and arpeggios feel way easier on my teacher's grand.

I thought I found an amazing deal on a demo MP11 (non-SE) through Sam Ash for a little over $1,000. Since I was mainly in it for the action, I didn't care about cosmetic condition or anything non-functional damage. I figured it was like getting a better action than a VPC-1 for half the price, and that a store like Sam Ash would make sure it, you know, worked.

Well, the piano arrives, and behold -- roughly a third of the keys are super sticky, and it's completely unplayable. I assume it's is the infamous slip tape issue.

And that was all before I noticed the MP11 didn't even even didn't turn on.

Not to mention the missing music rest and one side panel half falling off.

Sam Ash was apologetic enough and offered some decent discounts for the trouble, but nothing with the theoretical quality-to-performance ratio of the MP11. After much deliberation between the MP7SE and MP11SE, I decided to go for the latter because I didn't know if the 7SE would be that meaningful of an action upgrade over the Casio.

Considering I've now spent over twice as much as I initially hoped, for my own peace of mind, I was wondering if anyone has had an MP11SE (or another grand-feel Kawai) for years without any issues cropping up? For those that have had to make fixes, have the solutions been permanent? I suppose it's easier to find examples of those who have had issues online, so I figured I'd ask.

At least I won't have to worry about the pedals!

Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 552
K
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 552
what you need is es520, the greatest kawai keybed ever.

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 329
N
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 329
I wanted mod and pitchwheels because I'd rather avoid needing a second controller for non-piano instruments. Also, the pivot on the RHCII doesn't look any better than the Casio, a keybed I'm otherwise quite happy with and which has translated well to the acoustic pianos I've used.

Last edited by napilopez; 05/03/22 10:40 PM.
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
M
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Originally Posted by KawaFanboi
what you need is es520, the greatest kawai keybed ever.

Just goes to show how subjective this is. I've had a VPC1, an ES8, an ES520 and an ES110 and out of those the 520 is the one I liked the least. Didn't hate it by a long shot - just liked the others better.

Oh and congrats on the 11SE - played one at the dealers recently and it was just lovely - buttery smooth and quiet.

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,230
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,230
Originally Posted by napilopez
So I've been through a bit of 'fun' odyssey upgrading my Casio PX-560. I mainly use VSTs (although I like having internal sounds when necessary) and I've been starting to feel the limitations of the action and the *gasp* pivot point. Not the end of the world as the PX-560 has been lovely and utterly unproblematic otherwise, but stretchy chords and arpeggios feel way easier on my teacher's grand.

I thought I found an amazing deal on a demo MP11 (non-SE) through Sam Ash for a little over $1,000. Since I was mainly in it for the action, I didn't care about cosmetic condition or anything non-functional damage. I figured it was like getting a better action than a VPC-1 for half the price, and that a store like Sam Ash would make sure it, you know, worked.

Well, the piano arrives, and behold -- roughly a third of the keys are super sticky, and it's completely unplayable. I assume it's is the infamous slip tape issue.

And that was all before I noticed the MP11 didn't even even didn't turn on.

Not to mention the missing music rest and one side panel half falling off.

Sam Ash was apologetic enough and offered some decent discounts for the trouble, but nothing with the theoretical quality-to-performance ratio of the MP11. After much deliberation between the MP7SE and MP11SE, I decided to go for the latter because I didn't know if the 7SE would be that meaningful of an action upgrade over the Casio.

Considering I've now spent over twice as much as I initially hoped, for my own peace of mind, I was wondering if anyone has had an MP11SE (or another grand-feel Kawai) for years without any issues cropping up? For those that have had to make fixes, have the solutions been permanent? I suppose it's easier to find examples of those who have had issues online, so I figured I'd ask.

At least I won't have to worry about the pedals!

Don't worry too much. It's not going to be a lot to fix, even out of warranty. Much a do about very little really.


Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 329
N
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by napilopez
So I've been through a bit of 'fun' odyssey upgrading my Casio PX-560. I mainly use VSTs (although I like having internal sounds when necessary) and I've been starting to feel the limitations of the action and the *gasp* pivot point. Not the end of the world as the PX-560 has been lovely and utterly unproblematic otherwise, but stretchy chords and arpeggios feel way easier on my teacher's grand.

I thought I found an amazing deal on a demo MP11 (non-SE) through Sam Ash for a little over $1,000. Since I was mainly in it for the action, I didn't care about cosmetic condition or anything non-functional damage. I figured it was like getting a better action than a VPC-1 for half the price, and that a store like Sam Ash would make sure it, you know, worked.

Well, the piano arrives, and behold -- roughly a third of the keys are super sticky, and it's completely unplayable. I assume it's is the infamous slip tape issue.

And that was all before I noticed the MP11 didn't even even didn't turn on.

Not to mention the missing music rest and one side panel half falling off.

Sam Ash was apologetic enough and offered some decent discounts for the trouble, but nothing with the theoretical quality-to-performance ratio of the MP11. After much deliberation between the MP7SE and MP11SE, I decided to go for the latter because I didn't know if the 7SE would be that meaningful of an action upgrade over the Casio.

Considering I've now spent over twice as much as I initially hoped, for my own peace of mind, I was wondering if anyone has had an MP11SE (or another grand-feel Kawai) for years without any issues cropping up? For those that have had to make fixes, have the solutions been permanent? I suppose it's easier to find examples of those who have had issues online, so I figured I'd ask.

At least I won't have to worry about the pedals!

Don't worry too much. It's not going to be a lot to fix, even out of warranty. Much a do about very little really.

Thanks, that's encouraging to hear

Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 151
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 151
It's also quite subjective. Plenty people don't mind a bit of tinkering as long as they have decent instructions to follow.

Others resent the very concept of having to take a screwdriver into their hands and do maintenance.


My sisters (for example) are far from stupid, but if a lamp needs to be hung most of anything else that requires tools, especially power tools? They'll get my dad - or anyone else in the family - to come over and do it for them.

They didn't get that attitude from my mom, that's for sure.


Kawai CA79
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 126
H
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
H
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 126
The whole thing came from a design fault, which happens to all Kawai's wooden keybed prior to GFC and GF3 (minus the ancient non weighted one), so you just can never avoid it, but luckily can be fixed pretty easy, and what better is you can even do it yourself

Last edited by HoangCosmic; 05/04/22 02:44 PM.

Casio AP250 - Kawai CN24 - Kawai CA65 - Kawai CA67- Roland FP30 - Roland FP7X
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 7,226
G
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 7,226
Honestly, from what I've seen here, this issue affects more users than Kawai would like to say, but I don't think it's something like 30% or even 10% of users.

If there's a design issue that materially affects 0.1% users (one in a thousand), that probably falls away to the background and we may only hear of one or two instances of it. But something that affects 0.5% of users (one in 200), we may hear quite a few reports, including long-persistent threads on Pianoworld. But your odds of encountering it are still 1 in 200, which arguably ain't that bad (I've taken far greater odds buying DPs).

So I'd say all things being equal, be aware of it but don't feel you need to pass on a DP you really like just because you fear you may run into the issue.


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV-10
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 178
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 178
I've had my MP11SE for about 3 years now. I don't give it constant heavy use, but it is used often day to day for a little while, with a couple of week breaks at times. The keybed is as good as the day I brought it home. I wouldn't have a problem fixing the issue myself if need be, but so far it shows no sign of ever having a problem.


The companions I can't live without: Kawai Acoustic Grand, Kawai MP11SE, Kronos2-73, Yamaha Montage8, Korg D1
Other important stuff: Studiologic NC2X, NI Komplete Ultimate 11, Sonuscore Elysion and Orchestra, Pianoteq 7, Experimenta Due.
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 329
N
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by steamrick
It's also quite subjective. Plenty people don't mind a bit of tinkering as long as they have decent instructions to follow.

Others resent the very concept of having to take a screwdriver into their hands and do maintenance.


My sisters (for example) are far from stupid, but if a lamp needs to be hung most of anything else that requires tools, especially power tools? They'll get my dad - or anyone else in the family - to come over and do it for them.

They didn't get that attitude from my mom, that's for sure.
I'm fairly handy (in the sense that I'm willing to learn, not that I know how to do a lot), and I've already watched some of the videos, so I'm not too worried if I have to do it on my own. But I'd still rather not have to =]

Originally Posted by HoangCosmic
The whole thing came from a design fault, which happens to all Kawai's wooden keybed prior to GFC and GF3 (minus the ancient non weighted one), so you just can never avoid it, but luckily can be fixed pretty easy, and what better is you can even do it yourself


Yep, I'm aware; spent a long time debating between getting a CA49, since the Grand Feel Compactaction is still longer than the VPC1 and it doesn't have the slip tape, but figured the MP11SE is still the better instrument overall, especially for someone with solid sound system already.

Originally Posted by Gombessa
Honestly, from what I've seen here, this issue affects more users than Kawai would like to say, but I don't think it's something like 30% or even 10% of users.

If there's a design issue that materially affects 0.1% users (one in a thousand), that probably falls away to the background and we may only hear of one or two instances of it. But something that affects 0.5% of users (one in 200), we may hear quite a few reports, including long-persistent threads on Pianoworld. But your odds of encountering it are still 1 in 200, which arguably ain't that bad (I've taken far greater odds buying DPs).

So I'd say all things being equal, be aware of it but don't feel you need to pass on a DP you really like just because you fear you may run into the issue.
Thank you very much for this, it helps to keep things in perspective. Your last sentence really is the core of it all. The MP11SE should arrive next week so I'll report back then =]

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
K
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
K
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
How common it is, I don’t know but it has been discussed ad nauseam. Bought my MP11 in 2014 and problem did not show up until 2020. Suspect the room temperature and humidity may influence if or how much your piano is exposed to this problem.

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 751
S
500 Post Club Member
Online Blank
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 751
Originally Posted by HoangCosmic
..... but luckily can be fixed pretty easy, and what better is you can even do it yourself

So why haven't Kawai bothered to fix it?

I'm afraid this constant story from Kawai and their apparent unwillingness to acknowledge and actually do something about it makes me actively avoid their products and until they have "owned up" and addressed the problem I will continue to do so.

It's a good job their customers don't seem to be too demanding, although I imagine such faults in Roland, Yamaha, Korg, or any other manufacturer might have the very same people squealing, "Precisely why I buy a Kawai!"

Imagine somebody buying a Rolls-Royce and expecting to have to fix a regular known fault in the design after a period of time. I could see the Rolls-Royce image suffering in those circumstances, do Kawai think they are above judgement here, or what?

OK, so Kawai are not the "Rolls-Royce" of digital pianos, I can accept that.

Come on Kawai, get your act together!

Originally Posted by Kurt W
How common it is, I don’t know but it has been discussed ad nauseam.

Really.... I rest my case. Buy a piano that works.

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,321
H
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,321
Originally Posted by slipperykeys
So why haven't Kawai bothered to fix it?

Kawai has addressed the issue and it is no longer present in the successor action Grand Feel 3 and the derived Grand Feel Compact.

Now the MP11SE and VPC1*) should be replaced by successors as well, and if so that would mean no more slip tape in any current instrument.

Today I played Grand Feel 3 (and compared it to many other digital pianos), and to me that *is* an action that works! A substantial improvement over the original Grand Feel and (I presume) also over the Grand Feel II. I was less impressed with the Grand Feel Compact, without saying that is a bad action -- it isn't.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

*) By the way: I am not aware of any slip tape issues as such in the VPC1, but believe its action still has a capstan screw and tape surface to drive the hammer.

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 751
S
500 Post Club Member
Online Blank
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 751
Originally Posted by HZPiano
Originally Posted by slipperykeys
So why haven't Kawai bothered to fix it?

Kawai has addressed the issue and it is no longer present in the successor action Grand Feel 3 and the derived Grand Feel Compact.
Well that's good to know, although I will still be avoiding the product for a number of years. To be honest, when I last bought a digital, in 2011, I personally still felt the Roland's were easily the best.
Recently I think Yamaha have made some progress but I still favour Roland and avoid Kawai.

Originally Posted by HZPiano
Now the MP11SE and VPC1*) should be replaced by successors as well, and if so that would mean no more slip tape in any current instrument.
OK, but really, what took so long?

Originally Posted by HZPiano
Today I played Grand Feel 3 (and compared it to many other digital pianos), and to me that *is* an action that works! A substantial improvement over the original Grand Feel and (I presume) also over the Grand Feel II. I was less impressed with the Grand Feel Compact, without saying that is a bad action -- it isn't.

As we have seen, they may be OK today but what about later? I will wait at least three years without hearing this complaint before I go near a Kawai.

I am just as demanding with Roland. I had no interest in the RD800 after it's little launch power problem and have still never played one.


Originally Posted by HZPiano
Cheers and happy playing,


HZ

Thanks, I wish you the same... with added reliability!
Originally Posted by HZPiano
*) By the way: I am not aware of any slip tape issues as such in the VPC1, but believe its action still has a capstan screw and tape surface to drive the hammer.

No, I have heard of no problems, other than quality control of which there seem to have been a few complaints in the past, sometimes accompanied by photos, but this instrument doesn't interest me anyway.

Thanks for your reply.

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 7,226
G
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 7,226
Originally Posted by slipperykeys
I am just as demanding with Roland. I had no interest in the RD800 after it's little launch power problem and have still never played one.

Just curious, is there a reason for this? The power issue shouldn't impact you now that you know what to look for (don't plug the power cord into an XLR jack), so why avoid it? This strikes me as demanding perfection from the very start even if the problem has been solved.

I can understand you not wanting an MP11 or other keyboard with a GF1 action, because for these products, the slip tape is still an issue. But I don't think that's the case for the Roland.


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV-10
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 751
S
500 Post Club Member
Online Blank
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 751
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by slipperykeys
I am just as demanding with Roland. I had no interest in the RD800 after it's little launch power problem and have still never played one.

Just curious, is there a reason for this? The power issue shouldn't impact you now that you know what to look for (don't plug the power cord into an XLR jack), so why avoid it? This strikes me as demanding perfection from the very start even if the problem has been solved.

I can understand you not wanting an MP11 or other keyboard with a GF1 action, because for these products, the slip tape is still an issue. But I don't think that's the case for the Roland.

Sorry Gombessa, long rambling reply. I have a feeling we could talk for hours about this!

OK, I demand perfection. However, you won't be surprised to hear, I don't get it, having owned and played Roland's since 1990 I am only too aware of their many "limitations", "quirks" and "character". For example, the acoustic bass 3 voice on the RD-700NX has a really unpleasant click when you release the key or pedal. So, which, of all their bass tones is the pre-set on the four layer switch buttons? You've guessed it! THAT nasty, clicky voice!! I mean... Why 3? Why not 1? Or 2? They don't click!

I haven't bothered with the RD2000 either because I do not want all those stupid lights. It's a piano, not an airport! I sometimes wonder if any Roland engineer has ever actually sat at an acoustic piano. After all, these are the computer designers who gave us pianos without music rests...
"You're a musician, what do you need music for?" Yeah, right. Thanks for that.

Imagine a Bosendorfer Imperial with lots of little LEDS on it. How many concert pianists want that nonsense distracting them?

Imagine a Steinway with no music rest!

I would love to hear Glenn Gould's opinion of that.

It is so stupid it defies belief. But here we are, served up with it. And (I imagine) expected to be grateful.

But I am also aware that there is no such thing as perfection in this world and still find Rolands the best for me. I just love the feel.

Indeed, I have on a number of occasions on this very site bemoaned about the apparent belief of "Acoustic good, Digital bad" when that simply has not (IMO) been the case now for a number of years.

I believe that all the digital high cost pianos are now of a standard that is acceptable to any pianist worthy of the name. After that it is simply personal preference and I like and trust Roland (to a degree...). But most importantly I have proven track records of their reliability that satisfy me.

I fully understand Kawai are/were in a difficult position, they can't admit there is a problem because every customer will want recompense which would be terribly expensive. I understand that.

I do think though, that they have been slow on the uptake to remedy it and customers have a right to feel aggrieved about that, just as I feel aggrieved about the, shall we call them, "strange choices" of Roland.

After all, why didn't they discover the power lead problem for themselves?

No, I don't play a Kawai, but that doesn't mean I can't, and it certainly doesn't mean I wouldn't. I am sure I would have no problem with any modern Kawai, Roland, Yamaha, Korg.... you name it.

But I could very well turn up anywhere to find a supplied acoustic "concert grand" in poor shape. That just won't happen if I take my digital.

If we don't tell manufacturers what we want we will never get it. If they want me to buy their next stage piano Roland need to provide a switch to turn off the LED's. Oh, and I will be carefully checking that "Acoustic Bass 3" voice. Just see if I don't!

Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 2,131
S
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 2,131
Originally Posted by slipperykeys
For example, the acoustic bass 3 voice on the RD-700NX has a really unpleasant click when you release the key or pedal.

That's pretty poor. Does that occur for every instrument of that same model? It's a reported and known issue right? If so ...... then so much for rigorous testing, beta testing etc.

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 18,038
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 18,038
Originally Posted by slipperykeys
So why haven't Kawai bothered to fix it?

My understanding is that this issue - in the event that it does occur - is more likely to happen on older generation instruments, and those cases (if reported to the dealer/distributor) should have been fixed under warranty.

It's not a problem on current generation (CAx9) models, and shouldn't be a problem on new MP11SE instruments.

If I was in the market for a professional stage piano with the most realistic keyboard action available, I would personally have no qualms about buying an MP11SE.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 751
S
500 Post Club Member
Online Blank
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 751
Originally Posted by SouthPark
That's pretty poor. Does that occur for every instrument of that same model? It's a reported and known issue right? If so ...... then so much for rigorous testing, beta testing etc.

No, it certainly doesn't, that is why I wonder why they selected that one to be the default. In fact the bass tones are from voice no. 421 to 524 so there's plenty (103!) to choose from in the total 965 voices.
As for testing I believe many people have their own stories about products of all types rushed to the market by a manufacturer anxious to start turning a profit from the R and D costs.

How fondly I recall a satellite receiver known as the Echostar AD 3000 (NOT!)

Originally Posted by Kawai James
If I was in the market for a professional stage piano with the most realistic keyboard action available, I would personally have no qualms about buying an MP11SE.

Kind regards,
James
x

I understand and fully accept what you say. However, I do not agree with your claim regarding the most realistic keyboard action.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Piano Buying Guide
The Definitive Piano Buying Guide
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha CLP 745 Sound problems
by robablob - 08/19/22 08:04 AM
Zeitter & Winkelmann
by Steve Freides - 08/19/22 07:35 AM
Favorite headphones?
by Hummingbird - 08/18/22 09:42 PM
Recommendation for digital piano to take ABRSM exams
by galapogos - 08/18/22 09:17 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics214,461
Posts3,217,534
Members106,121
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5