Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Grand Feel Compact vs GrandTouch-S

Hello. I'm an amateur piano player and want to buy a digital piano. The most important thing for me is authentic action. I'm choosing between two models, Kawai CA49 (Grand Feel Compact) and Yamaha CLP-735 (GrandTouch-S).

Unfortunately, I can't test them in real. So please, who tried these pianos, share your thoughts about the actions. Thanks.

GFC all the way. but still inferior to RHC, greatest kawai action ever created.

GFC feels lighter and more linear up and down, the 735 GTS is heavier and has that new clicky groove where the stroke feels more nuanced.

so the best Kawai action ever created is by far the cheapest ? quite a striking claim right there

but you can find those pianos in any decent music shop, they are not that rare. Really worth the trip

I've looked at different reviews and videos on the internet, and it's like "kawai is good", but "yamaha is good also".

So I suspect that all modern actions are pretty much the same in terms of feeling seesaw lever, like in acoustic pianos, and differences between these digital actions are comparable to differences between different acoustic actions (e.g. weight). Correct me if I wrong please.

Also as far as I understand, wooden keys is more about marketing that feeling. Also maybe straight keys like in Kawai's actions is a marketing too, because as long as pivot point is the same, and weight is the same, I can't explain why straight keys is better than "folded inside". Correct me if I wrong please.

Both GFC and GT-S have escapement feel and three sensors, but does it sounds if key is pressed right from the escapement position?


P. S. I have Kawai ES-100 with old AHAIV-F action. Does GFC and GT-S feels better?

You probably know already - that the GrandTouch-S is not the same as GrandTouch (without the S). Feels better generally leads to a variety of different opinions from different people. The best bet is to try for oneself. As in - one person might say that they like a particular feel better, as it gives them the control they need and they're comfortable with it. While another person says that they're fine with a different feel, and can also comfortably and reliably play something excellently - as well as the other person. So in the end - just go with your own opinion, after having checked out the feel ourselves.

I have tried ES7 (RH-II) and VPC1 (RM-III), the later feels immensely better to me - which isn't surprising, is it ?
I can't say anything about GrandTouch or GFC (I wanted to try but didn't need in the end), but I can tell you which one looks better on paper : GF-S is a plastic folded action, GFC is all wood and non-folded

Except better view on paper, which mechanical reasons makes wooden non-folded action feels differently than folded plastic (or whatever), at the same weight and piviot length? I'm personally fan of Kawai, and I look like drooling Homer Simpson when I see Kawai's GF/GFC actions on pictures in the internet. But I also try to be pragmatic: I can't feel "wood energy", but I can feel different pivot length or weight, for example. Also Kawai CA49 is 40% more expensive that Yamaha CLP-735 in my country. Also Yamaha has USB audio input interface, so maybe I can play software VST (like Pianoteq) on builtin speakers. Also Yamaha has not too big sheet stand so I can freely put my laptop on its top. So the only reason why I still not buy Yamaha is the action, which is the main feature I worry about.

To all: I repeat, that unfortunately I can't play instruments before the byuing. There are no music shops in my town and I have no time to trip to the nearest big city. Also kawai pianos even in shops is pretty rare, it should be ordered and waited. All I need is to get action feels like acoustic instrument to easy switch from home practice to performace in my music school on acoustic upright.

Thanks for any help.

Both are great actions and there is no way to know which one you would prefer without trying them out.
If you are interested in using the USB audio interface then I'd go with the Yamaha just for that.
I have owned and liked various Kawai DP's - my current DP is a Yamaha CLP 725 which I really like and probably won't upgrade until I get myself in just the right (wrong ? :-) ) frame of mind to buy a NU1X.

Cheers

the CA-59 has USB in I think ? you may want to increase your budget a little bit, it's "just" a 400$ difference, for a better speaker system (what's the point audio-in if it doesn't sound good anyway)
it's a budget strech I understand

there are endless debates about that in the forum, please dive into them if you wish. I doubt the GF-S is a match for the GFC. I doubt it is as good as the NWX too (you may want to upgrade your Yamaha choice too). As you say, it's cheaper...

None of the Kawais have USB audio.

ok, sorry to hear it
if Yamaha's are cheap and you like them, I would consider a 745 over a 735 : wooden white keys and better sound system

Hello,

@C. L., If you don't have the time to travel to nearest stores: you should really make that time anyway.

I made such a trip twice over the last few weeks and (again) experienced how different all the actions in all the different digital pianos actually are. Out of the whole bunch there were only two that I'd consider myself happy with and, unfortunately, those are not the cheapest ones. Both are wooden, straight, and have a longer keystick.

Keep in mind that pivot point and touch weight are *just* two of *many!!* design and construction factors that determine the feel, behavior and response of a (digital) piano action.

Really. Trying in person is *essential*. If you don't, you stand a substantial risk to get disappointed. And then you'll lose time and money in spades, that would have been better spent on one or two tryout trips.

Cheers and happy further research,

HZ

No idea why exactly, but the key actions differ in many subtleties which are difficult to analyse and describe. A hypothetical German piano review magazine could produce neat graphs with eight-or-so measurable parameters, but you'd still be in the dark as to which you'd prefer in person.

How's compared to the CLP745 that has the better Yamaha action - I guess the 735 compares more to the CN39?

I'm sorry we're of not much use to you. But indeed it may be important to you how a DP "relates" to that particular AU, and AUs are far from all the same and the differences are more than simple downweight which can be measured.
If you can't try, you might as well toss a coin and hope for the best Maybe order from a place that accepts returns, in case you'd really hate it when it comes. In most cases people adapt though.

but you can find those pianos in any decent music shop, they are not that rare. Really worth the trip[/quote]

I don’t think you understand quite how bad the supply crisis is. About 6 months ago, the closest GFC to me was a single display model that would require 7 hours travel. Now there’s not one within 20 hours travel. That was also the closest GF3. I live in a metro area of ~4 million people with at least a dozen major music stores, 4 hours travel from 2 other similarly sized metros. These things are RARE.

But to answer the original posters question, GT-S WOOD (on the 745) is a closer model to the GFC. I still like the GFC better and more “realistic” but I consider them within range of each other.

Buy both and send one back? Women do it all the time with Shoes and Clothes.

and if they are so rare, you will wait months to get a piano you did not even tried
you have to like surprises... I'd much rather buy a older second hand one
buying and getting is easy. Returning a cabinet piano is a pain is the bottom...

Anybody can give me a scientific explanation why "wood" does matter here? Also, black is still plastic (probably because you anyway will not see it, unlike side of white keys).

I won't go there. I only say the wooden GF-S is the replacement of the NWX and it's known to be pretty good. You can find discussions about it on the forum
Yamaha is confusing everyone calling all their CLP-7XX keybeds Gran Touch while they are all different (plus, Gran Touch refers to an old hybrid of much higher price)
It's only a wild guess saying the only difference between the 735 and 745 keys are the wooden parts

There *is* no simple scientific explanation and some folks may even prefer the "lower" models. If you open up the action you can observe a higher level of manufacturing. Wood as material for keys has certain advantages and disadvantages. But it is not so clear how that translates to the action feel. Subjectively to me, the P515/CLP645 was notably better than the "lower" Yamahas, disregarding construction prejudice (but I haven't tried the CLP7 series). But it still had a "crusty" feel - top hard, then oddly turns soft lower down, unlike my old AU. This could probably be altered by a redesign the slopes of a small mechanical bit that links the key and the hammer.
I wasn't sure if the CA59 was worth the price difference over the CN39 - but the same RHIII in the ES8 was annoyingly bouncy on key release, maybe resulting from wear...