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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Is it common for new pianos to mellow after use? Understandable that the tone will change with settling and use, but I had always heard that typically new hammers are soft and will compact/groove with use, becoming brighter rather than mellower (and that the una corda becomes more effective/noticeable because of it).

No, pianos definitely don’t get mellower with additional playing time. Any salesperson who tells you that is lying.


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Originally Posted by Estella
Thank you so much for all your suggestions and insights. They are so helpful. The floor model has been on display for four years at a place with busy traffic in HK, so it is indeed a bit tricky. I guess I will trust the quality of Sauter and credibility of the dealer, and take one of the factory models.


If I were in this situation, I would have the dealer voice one of the pianos to sound like the floor model, with the understanding that I would purchase it after evaluating the results. It is not a matter of not trusting Sauter, it is a matter of knowing no two pianos of the same model are alike— and they cannot always be changed enough.


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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Estella
Thank you so much for all your suggestions and insights. They are so helpful. The floor model has been on display for four years at a place with busy traffic in HK, so it is indeed a bit tricky. I guess I will trust the quality of Sauter and credibility of the dealer, and take one of the factory models.


If I were in this situation, I would have the dealer voice one of the pianos to sound like the floor model, with the understanding that I would purchase it after evaluating the results. It is not a matter of not trusting Sauter, it is a matter of knowing no two pianos of the same model are alike— and they cannot always be changed enough.
Exactly.

There is no guarantee that any piano can be voiced to one's liking or like some other piano of the same model. One should never buy a piano hoping it can be adjusted later to one's liking. Asking a dealer to voice a piano before purchase and without a promise to buy it is a very common request especially on high end pianos.

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(Adding to my last post)if the dealer cannot voice one of the other pianos to your liking, take the floor model. Doing anything else is IMO quite foolish.

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Originally Posted by TBell
The dealer's room may be acoustically less reflective than the inventory room. Hard surfaces such as windows and hard floors accentuate brightness more than a room with carpet, furnishings and drapes etc.
I was shocked on discovering how big a difference these can make.
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Why not just take the Sauter that he preferred that wasn't so bright?
Simplest solution.
Originally Posted by Starre
I had similar experience with my Seiler upright, you might even like a little brighter sound in the long run, use it and tune every 6 months to start with.
The brighter the piano, the better it must be tuned is a thumb rule that, in my experience, holds true. Out of tune notes and unisons really stand out. The brighter the piano, the less forgiving it is of imprecise play is another rule (say, chords or octaves with notes not struck perfectly together). Players who are able to refine their play to match the brightness of the piano are often rewarded with a crisp, clear, beautiful sound. If the acoustics of the room are bad, however, it will still sound painful to the ear.

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Originally Posted by MrSh4nkly
The brighter the piano, the less forgiving it is of imprecise play is another rule (say, chords or octaves with notes not struck perfectly together). Players who are able to refine their play to match the brightness of the piano are often rewarded with a crisp, clear, beautiful sound. If the acoustics of the room are bad, however, it will still sound painful to the ear.
No matter how "precisely" one plays one cannot change a bright piano's sound, and it will not be a "beautiful" sound unless one happens to like a brighter sound.

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Originally Posted by tre corda
They probably are just slightly out of tune with each other.
Not sure I understand. Out of tune internally (unisons,, octaves, or other intervals being out)? Or compared one piano vs the other?

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
No matter how "precisely" one plays one cannot change a bright piano's sound, and it will not be a "beautiful" sound unless one happens to like a brighter sound.
Yes, obviously. The point of the post is I believe bright pianos are less forgiving of bad tuning and technique. You may disagree, and that's just fine.

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It is so strange reading all of this, the Sauter I played and the one I listened to was not bright.It is usually Schimmel pianos are often considered bright yet my K132 is certainly not bright.
"Silvery" is what describes it and like the Sauter great clarity. I certainly say as well to me it's a better tone than some Bechstein models.Yet I hate a really bright piano and I have experienced quite a few of those as well but not in these brands.Choose the piano you love the sound of.


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.In other words a hymn.That is all, but that is enough.Life goes on, despite pain and fear.Music is beautiful,life is beautiful.


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Originally Posted by MrSh4nkly
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
No matter how "precisely" one plays one cannot change a bright piano's sound, and it will not be a "beautiful" sound unless one happens to like a brighter sound.
Yes, obviously. The point of the post is I believe bright pianos are less forgiving of bad tuning and technique. You may disagree, and that's just fine.
No, my comment was about what I quoted from your post where you said that if one had good technique one could make a bright piano sound beautiful.

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by MrSh4nkly
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
No matter how "precisely" one plays one cannot change a bright piano's sound, and it will not be a "beautiful" sound unless one happens to like a brighter sound.
Yes, obviously. The point of the post is I believe bright pianos are less forgiving of bad tuning and technique. You may disagree, and that's just fine.
No, my comment was about what I quoted from your post where you said that if one had good technique one could make a bright piano sound beautiful.
Just give it up pianoloverus, he did not mean that! He was talking about tuning.Nothing is written in granite here.We get that later..

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Originally Posted by Estella
I just ordered a Sauter Masterclass 130 from the official dealer in Hong Kong. I was offered to choose from the two brand new ones in their inventory. But upon testing, these two both sound notably different from the one on display. Both are brighter, and not as sweet and mellow with nice singing tone, as the one on display. And even the two brand new ones sound different from each other too, with one much brighter than the other. The sales person says that the difference was because those are brand new and with time they will sound more like the one on display.
I wonder if that will be the case? Anyone has experience on this? Thank you so much!
Regarding what the sales person says: total nonsense.
I've been playing pianos for 65 years at this point.
Not a single one has, on its own, without voicing, grown more mellow in tone as the hammers wear from playing.
To the contrary - they ALWAYS get brighter.
Why? Because the felt in the hammer compacts from repeated blows - though if it were as simple as that, voicing would be easy and not an art, in itself.

You are going to be spending a lot of money.
If the room is in question, at the least, have the dealer put the pianos into the same room. Play them again. If they sound the same, your problem is solved, if not continue with my second suggestion.
I also second the suggestion that BEFORE BUYING you have the dealer voice the new piano to sound like the one that's been on the shop floor.

Personally, I would buy the floor model IF it sounds better assuming the warranty details were identical.


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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
No, my comment was about what I quoted from your post where you said that if one had good technique one could make a bright piano sound beautiful.
Stop twisting my words. I did not say one could "make" a bright piano sound beautiful. My comment was exactly this:
Quote
Players who are able to refine their play to match the brightness of the piano are often rewarded with a crisp, clear, beautiful sound.
It's a statement of opinion, not an absolute. Here's another opinion of mine I can't fail based on months of reading your hair-splitting posts: I believe the whole purpose of you being here is to find excuses to argue with people, and that you somehow, weirdly get off on this. I can't imagine enduring such a miserable existence but will let you have the last word since you're the type of person who always has to have it. In fact, I may just quit this forum so I don't have abide your incessant, Scrooge-like negativity.

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Originally Posted by Seeker
You are going to be spending a lot of money.
If the room is in question, at the least, have the dealer put the pianos into the same room.

Big +1 to this. Frankly, I can understand a dealer not wanting to go to the trouble of voicing a piano to the customer's taste for an audition (their loss), but they should at least be able to put two pianos side by side in the same room for you to try.


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Originally Posted by MrSh4nkly
Here's another opinion of mine I can't fail based on months of reading your hair-splitting posts: I believe the whole purpose of you being here is to find excuses to argue with people, and that you somehow, weirdly get off on this. I can't imagine enduring such a miserable existence but will let you have the last word since you're the type of person who always has to have it. In fact, I may just quit this forum so I don't have abide your incessant, Scrooge-like negativity.

Can we please desist from this sort of personal attack. I do not come to PW to read this sort of stuff, which is most unpleasant. Pianoloverus is perfectly entitled to his opinion, which in this case is I think helpful to the OP, without being insulted.

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Originally Posted by David-G
Can we please desist from this sort of personal attack. I do not come to PW to read this sort of stuff, which is most unpleasant. Pianoloverus is perfectly entitled to his opinion, which in this case is I think helpful to the OP, without being insulted.
As if twisting what I wrote isn't a personal attack. As if that isn't insulting. As if I'm not entitled to my opinion. You don't come here to read this sort of stuff? I don't come here to read inane posts from someone twisting my words and looking to pick a fight. You two, who have been here forever, complement each other's pretentious negativity greatly and thus should get a room. As for me, I'm out of here.

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Originally Posted by Estella
I see. Thanks for the insight! The dealer tuned the new pianos before letting me to test and choose. They did mention that they will perform three more tuning during the first year after delivery. Would that make the piano sound warmer and mellower?

No, repeated tuning will not make a piano sound warmer and mellower. To do that, voicing is required - and you should have that done BEFORE you buy the piano, not afterwards, to ensure that you are satisfied with it before you purchase.

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Mr Sha4nkly has repeatedly explained himself this kind of constant harassment can cause anyone to say anything eventually.People are only human.Are we really expected to be hounded to death because someone has been a member here for years.I think you should read the posts more clearly before you accuse Mr Sha4nkly!


My piano's voice is my voice to God and the great unknown universe, and to those I love.In other words a hymn.That is all, but that is enough.Life goes on, despite pain and fear.Music is beautiful,life is beautiful.


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Originally Posted by Estella
I just ordered a Sauter Masterclass 130 from the official dealer in Hong Kong. I was offered to choose from the two brand new ones in their inventory. But upon testing, these two both sound notably different from the one on display. Both are brighter, and not as sweet and mellow with nice singing tone, as the one on display. And even the two brand new ones sound different from each other too, with one much brighter than the other. The sales person says that the difference was because those are brand new and with time they will sound more like the one on display.
I wonder if that will be the case? Anyone has experience on this? Thank you so much!

Having lived and worked for several years in Hong Kong I know Tom Lee Music well and used to call in 3-4 times/month just to get my regular 'fix' by playing an accoustic piano. At the time I had a oldish Clavinova purchased in Europe which Tom Lee Music took in part exchange for the then recently announced Yamaha PF 1000 which I still have (and still love).
I was tempted so many times there to purchase a 'real' piano and at least on one occasion almost succombed to the urge to open up the wallet after playing a superb C-Bechstein upright. One reason I didn't was due to the humidity there; I lived deep in the New Territories, travelling each day to Chek Lap Kok island to the newly opened international airport, and half expected at any time to be re-posted to an even more humid location in Asia.
All the pianos in Tom Lee Music whilst I was there were cruelly-treated workhorses and practically on every visit I saw children of all ages attempting to batter Fur-Elise to death by their heavy pounding, or by battering the keys to death on some other gorgeous grand piano.
In another piano store at Festival Walk it was there that I first set eyes on a Fazioli. That poor, new piano (with a mind-blowing price-tag in $HK) was tortured by kids too, especially at weekends and much to my surprise the sales personnel didn't appear to be at all concerned. On more than one occasion I reprimanded a child for playing 'crash' with the fallboard of an upright.
Another thing I do recall is that almost without exception all the pianos on display at both stores appeared to be well regulated and kept very well in tune. This, plus an air- conditioned environment made auditioning most pianos on display a pleasant experience.
I would suggest that the two new Sauters that they took from their inventory for you to try were hastily prepared or not regulated at all post delivery. That could well explain in part the difference you experienced in the tonalities. And were their stored pianos kept in a controlled air-conditioned environment? Perhaps not.
I was indeed eventually moved to a more humid region than Hong Kong, namely Singapore, so it hardly made sense to purchase an accoustic piano there either.
It was eventually on moving back to Europe, France that I started the hunt for my dream piano, which you may have already guessed was.......a Sauter, the experience of which I detailed in a post approx 14 years ago.
Interesting enough it was a 130 I auditioned in the showroom and I knew in an instant due to the high quality in general and exceptional touch and tone that this was the type of piano for me, but........the volume of the sound I found overpowering. I then spent some time with a 122cm model, which was a delight too, albeit with a more 'douce' acceptable volume to my ears.
Browsing the Sauter catalogue at home I became aware of the Masterclass series, which I was told they'd never had in store. Fortunately after negotiation one was just within my budget. I ordered the 122MC model sight-unseen, with the proviso that I would pay the balance after a post delivery preparation and subject to my complete satisfaction after auditioning in store.
Needless to say I was totally satisfied as these are truly remarkable pianos, plus I've found that the response from Spaichingen to any queries is first class.
A few months after my post delivery tunings, I had a Piano Dampp Chaser installed, and I suggest you may wish to do the same, especially located in Hong Kong.
I'm sure you will enjoy your wonderful piano!


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I see we have both been reported.What for? I have just been reading about MrSh4nkly's kindness to Starre about her piano.He always shows kindness to people.I felt I had to defend him in . I know what he experienced.

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