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Joined: Dec 2004
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Jameezy, I think your decision making sounds good. I agree with TD too, skip the "two pianos" thing and ask for a price reduction.

Re touch, I am on the same page as you, I want the piano to feel right under my fingers. When I was piano shopping, I cross a lot off the list because they didn't.

BTW, you're not skipping the tech inspect are you, just rescheduling right?


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Right, just rescheduling for later this week. I doubt he’ll find anything major, but still for peace of mind.

Good tip on the two piano thing, could use as a bargaining chip. I have met w the owner a couple times now, he knows I’m interested in the W. Schimmel from the guy down the street, so we are dancing the dance currently LOL.

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Keep dancing, maybe he'll drop the price a little more! smile


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Agree with ShiroKuro and terminaldegree. From everything I’ve read, you seem quite certain that the new Kawai is not the way you want to go. Personally, the only situation where I’d be on board with the two piano delivery would be if I were truly on the fence about the pianos. Otherwise, it sounds like a bunch of hassle and time to have the two pianos delivered and test them out at home before sending one back. If you can use the delivery offer to negotiate the price down, that would be the best outcome. Otherwise, think of other things that you might actually want. An artist bench rather than a standard bench? Installation of a dampp chaser? Extra service visits? Trying to use the two piano delivery to leverage the price would be preferable, but if the dealer won’t budge on the price, I’d try to get something I actually wanted, rather than the hassle of the two piano delivery situation.

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It was very generous of the dealer to offer to deliver both pianos to your home. If you don't want that done, I'm not at all sure it's a good idea to ask for something to replace that. To me that looks like you're trying to squeeze every last penny out of the dealer, and it's possible the dealer would be quite annoyed with that approach.

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Yeah, I felt it was a kind offer, but impractical. I wait to see how else he can bring the price down, maybe I will simply ask to keep that as an option in the event I get the Yamaha in the house and feel it’s too big, but no need to preemptively plan for that. I think it will be fine though, piano is 6’7”, room is 23’ x 13’, wood floors. If anything getting them both in there might just confuse me even more and give me second thoughts hahaha. I had never heard of a dealer offering that before though.

Last edited by Jameezy; 05/16/22 09:40 PM.
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Jameazy
I have a 7 ft piano in a room of about the same size and play on full-stick without being overwhelmed.

I, too, was concerned so I bought a large thick rug pad and rug that covers the entire piano size. That’s all I needed. I do have some upholstered furniture.


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There is no issue with piano size. My studio (holds only the piano really) is a bit smaller than that and I have a very powerful piano in there. Larger pianos with long key lengths tend to be very controllable.

Good sales tactic from the dealer. He has no additional cost really from bringing two pianos instead of one and he gets a guaranteed sale of one of them. He know you will buy the C5 in the end.


Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action, customised, frequently tuned and regulated. Dedicated music studio. Teaching and working on advanced Beethoven, Rach, Chopin. Somewhat parked Bach and Grieg. Plus anything students want to study and pay me to help with!
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Originally Posted by AJB
There is no issue with piano size. My studio (holds only the piano really) is a bit smaller than that and I have a very powerful piano in there. Larger pianos with long key lengths tend to be very controllable.
I think things are a bit more complicated than that. There are numerous posts on PW with people saying their piano is too loud for their room. There is an article in PB about choosing a piano's size to fit a room's size. So I would conclude that at least some of the time a piano can be too loud for a room. OTOH I don't think it will be a problem in this particular case.

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Originally Posted by AJB
There is no issue with piano size. My studio (holds only the piano really) is a bit smaller than that and I have a very powerful piano in there. Larger pianos with long key lengths tend to be very controllable.
I think things are a bit more complicated than that. There are numerous posts on PW with people saying their piano is too loud for their room. There is an article in PB about choosing a piano's size to fit a room's size. So I would conclude that at least some of the time a piano can be too loud for a room. OTOH I don't think it will be a problem in this particular case especially if the piano room opens up to other rooms which is often the case.

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yes, but I was not generalising, I was talking specifically about this room in this thread to this OP. He has given the room size and my studio is similar. A C5 is not a super loud piano.

I have in the past had a Hamburg D, concert Fazioli (in a small recording studio), and B. Imperial in similar sized rooms or studios and never had an issue. Typically where issues arise is rooms with a lot of very reflective surfaces and / or low headroom. Large, good quality, pianos are often very controllable.

That said, I probably wouldn't go much above 7ft domestically. No need.


Currently playing 2017 C212 with carbon fibre soundboard, WNG action, customised, frequently tuned and regulated. Dedicated music studio. Teaching and working on advanced Beethoven, Rach, Chopin. Somewhat parked Bach and Grieg. Plus anything students want to study and pay me to help with!
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Great advice, sounds like it should be fine then. Yes, there are two openings into the room at either end, ceilings average height. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by AJB
There is no issue with piano size. My studio (holds only the piano really) is a bit smaller than that and I have a very powerful piano in there. Larger pianos with long key lengths tend to be very controllable.
I think things are a bit more complicated than that. There are numerous posts on PW with people saying their piano is too loud for their room. There is an article in PB about choosing a piano's size to fit a room's size. So I would conclude that at least some of the time a piano can be too loud for a room. OTOH I don't think it will be a problem in this particular case.


I have played a couple of time on grands that were in small dealer's rooms and it was ok for a short period of time, but I wouldn't be able to bear it for long practice sessions. Also bass needs minimum space to develop properly otherwise you just get a mushy sound due to resonances created and standing waves. The theory says that you need at last half wave length to avoid the resonances. For a piano that goes down to 27 htz that would be about 19 feet. Of course many pieces dont reach that low, so roughly for the octave down to 50 hertz that would be about 12 feet long. If one damps the room or the piano too much, you just get a muffled sound without any life.


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Do you mean 12’ x 12’ room in your 50Hz example? How do you know what Hz your specific piano goes to? Easy to calculate based on piano length?

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Originally Posted by Jameezy
Great advice, sounds like it should be fine then. Yes, there are two openings into the room at either end, ceilings average height. Thanks!
With two openings the effective size of the space for the piano is much larger than the room size so chances are great that things will be fine. My M&H 7' BB is in a 12'x18' living room but the room opens up to the dining area/kitchen and hallway/foyer so the effective space is much larger. I play with the lid down and fly lid folded back.

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Originally Posted by Jameezy
Do you mean 12’ x 12’ room in your 50Hz example? How do you know what Hz your specific piano goes to? Easy to calculate based on piano length?


All pianos with 88 keys go down to 27.5 hertz, but most pieces (but some do of course) dont use the lowest octave or even 1,5 octaves. So practically we are more around 55 to 60 hertz.

yes of course there is a formula, the length depends on the speed of sound which varies based on temperature and atmospheric pressure. In first approx to get the wave length you divide the speed of sound which is 1130 feet/s by the frequency.


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Originally Posted by Sidokar
Originally Posted by Jameezy
Do you mean 12’ x 12’ room in your 50Hz example? How do you know what Hz your specific piano goes to? Easy to calculate based on piano length?


All pianos with 88 keys go down to 27.5 hertz, but most pieces (but some do of course) dont use the lowest octave or even 1,5 octaves. So practically we are more around 55 to 60 hertz.

yes of course there is a formula, the length depends on the speed of sound which varies based on temperature and atmospheric pressure. In first approx to get the wave length you divide the speed of sound which is 1130 feet/s by the frequency.

And human ear can barely perceive 27 hertz waves anyway in relative db level at similar emission level, so you hear mostly the upper harmonics.



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Originally Posted by Jameezy
I think it will be fine though, piano is 6’7”, room is 23’ x 13’, wood floors.

Originally Posted by dogperson
I have a 7 ft piano in a room of about the same size and play on full-stick without being overwhelmed.

I, too, was concerned so I bought a large thick rug pad and rug that covers the entire piano size. That’s all I needed. I do have some upholstered furniture.

Same here. I was mostly worried about volume before I got my piano, but it turned out fine. 7ft grand, in a ~19x20' room (varying dimensions but open floorplan), 8ft ceilings, hardwood floors. The piano itself isn't a loud one. It CAN be too loud if other people are in the same room, the lid is open, and I'm really trying to play f/ff. But I never do that, and so it works well, even with people sitting on the couch right next to the open lid. When sitting at the bench with the music desk up, it rarely ever feels even mildly loud to the pianist (I can't imagine ever needing ear plugs while playing, for instance).

My friends who just got a Kawai GX2 in a slightly smaller space have mentioned out loud their piano is, but I think those comments come from not really knowing what to expect from a grand in the first place (compared to the digital slab piano they were using before).

Long story story, I think you'll be fine, Jameezy!


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Great, I am sufficiently reassured smile

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Originally Posted by Gombessa
When sitting at the bench with the music desk up, it rarely ever feels even mildly loud to the pianist (I can't imagine ever needing ear plugs while playing, for instance).
I need to show this to my family 🙃

They are worried about my ears but don’t understand anything I say. ITS NOT THAT LOUD!

Especially in a big room...

They even tried to convince me to get these earplugs.

At least they care 😉

Last edited by probably blue; 05/17/22 12:51 PM.
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