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I was curious if anyone here had used Dexibell's Vivo S9? Or otherwise demoed the TP400W action that's also in the Dexibell H5, H10, and Studiologic Numa x Piano GT? It's not the TP40W, by the way.

I just got an MP11SE and have a long time before the return period ends. Though I'm 90% sure I'll keep it, I wouldn't mind better built-in sounds. I've also mostly sorted out my velocity curve issues, but am not 100% there yet.

Unfortunately, a piano with the TP400W seems unavailable to try in person anywhere around NYC (if you know where, let me know!). I expect it won't be as good as the grand feel, but I'm willing to sacrifice some of the mechanical action quality for good midi controller and excellent internal sounds.

I have tried other Dexibells before and IMO Dexibell's platinum sounds are among the very few internal sounds I'd consider to be approaching VST quality. A bit too dry and pristine, but I like it. The others are the Kawai SK-EX Rendering (which the MP11SE, unfortunately, doesn't have) and some of Nord's sounds. I also really like the idea of being able to update the piano with more sounds down the road. Plus I'm a sucker for blue.

Anyway, mostly just curious, as there's been little discussion of this action. I did see this thread in which the OP said they found the action too heavy.

I might also consider getting the upcoming SX8 so I can have the Dexibell sound engine plus Kawai keys.

Psst Kawai, I wouldn't mind if you put that SK-EX engine into an external module to 'upgrade' the MP11SE either =]

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if you find an sl88 grand controller in a music shop somewhere, it's basically the same. very heavy action.

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As noted above, it's not the TP40W in the S9, it's the TP400W. Two different actions. Unless you've tried the TP400W and can confirm they feel identical?

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i played the S9 for about an hour.the platinum sounds are very lively and remind me a lot of Roland modeled sounds.

but 50 seconds to start the keyboard is too long for me. i think the same goes for the sx modules.

I would not rate the key action, because 1 hour is too little.for me, the sounds were more important that day, because I was thinking of buying the new sx 8 module. you always have to familiarize yourself with the instrument first. but I found the key action very pleasant and high quality.


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Originally Posted by klausi6
i played the S9 for about an hour.the platinum sounds are very lively and remind me a lot of Roland modeled sounds.

but 50 seconds to start the keyboard is too long for me. i think the same goes for the sx modules.

I would not rate the key action, because 1 hour is too little.for me, the sounds were more important that day, because I was thinking of buying the new sx 8 module. you always have to familiarize yourself with the instrument first. but I found the key action very pleasant and high quality.

I use the PLT German all the time, really great; unlike Roland’s modeled sound, lol!

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Originally Posted by klausi6
i played the S9 for about an hour.the platinum sounds are very lively and remind me a lot of Roland modeled sounds.

but 50 seconds to start the keyboard is too long for me. i think the same goes for the sx modules.

I would not rate the key action, because 1 hour is too little.for me, the sounds were more important that day, because I was thinking of buying the new sx 8 module. you always have to familiarize yourself with the instrument first. but I found the key action very pleasant and high quality.

Thanks for the response! To my ear the dexibell sound engine is quite different from rolands, but that's a good thing for me =]. I tend to leave my keyboard on most of the time, so i don't mind the slow startup.

Anyway, all good to know. I wish it were easier to try these out in person. Perhaps the Numa X Piano GT will finally be on display in stores soon, as it seems some of the non-GT units have started to arrive.

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I haven't tried it myself but I've been investigating a bit since I'm too interested in the XGT

The feedback I've got (including this forum) is that the keys feel slightly heavier than the TP40W on the SL88 Grand, accurate and very playable according to some reviewers, not sure if comparable to some high regarded key actions like the GF or the PHA50 but definetely not in the cheap feeling ballpark.

According to Studiologic itself, it's an upgrade of the TP40W and designed with especific "technical polymers" to mimic as much as possible the weighting and consistency of a grand feel.

The balance of the comments and readings is positive, at least on paper. Definitely appealing and worth giving it a try IMO.

Sounds are apparently nothing wow, people are generally not that impressed by them, although listening to some demos I wouldn't say they're nothing but bad. It true that I tried the free plugin Studiologic offers with presumably some of these sounds and I didn't really like them. Additionally they're not as customizable as in any of the i.e. MP11 or FP90X but still there at a button click as a last resort if not willing to use VST's

I'd like to know what other fellas have to share on real experiences hands-on

My 2c

Last edited by overthinker; 05/17/22 04:35 PM.

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Originally Posted by overthinker
I haven't tried it myself but I've been investigating a bit since I'm too interested in the XGT

The feedback I've got (including this forum) is that the keys feel slightly heavier than the TP40W on the SL88 Grand, accurate and very playable according to some reviewers, not sure if comparable to some high regarded key actions like the GF or the PHA50 but definetely not in the cheap feeling ballpark.

According to Studiologic itself, it's an upgrade of the TP40W and designed with especific "technical polymers" to mimic as much as possible the weighting and consistency of a grand feel.

The balance of the comments and readings is positive, at least on paper. Definitely appealing and worth giving it a try IMO.

Sounds are apparently nothing wow, people are generally not that impressed by them, although listening to some demos I wouldn't say they're nothing but bad. It true that I tried the free plugin Studiologic offers with presumably some of these sounds and I didn't really like them. Additionally they're not as customizable as in any of the i.e. MP11 or FP90X but still there at a button click as a last resort if not willing to use VST's

I'd like to know what other fellas have to share on real experiences hands-on

My 2c

I'm assuming this is all about the Numa X GT right?

Yeah the sounds to me are decent -- I still prefer it to roland in demos. and from what I understand, the soudn is quite customizeable -- the Numa Player software is suposedly only a small portion of what the piano's built in engine is capable of.

I think I'd be happy if the TP400W it's close to the PHA50. I've always liked that action and to me, even having the grand feel in the MP11SE now, the PHA50 doesn't feel dramatically far.

I'm hoping Studiologic continues to update the Numa X Piano series down the road. From what I hear I think the sound engine should be capable of sounding pretty nice, but it needs more variety in tone (attack sample layers really) from pp to ff.

BH Photo Video here in NYC currently has some of the non-GT Numa X Piano in stock, but not on display in store yet. It' s not the model I'm interested in, but I hope the put it on store display if only to test the sound engine for myself. I'm also curious about the new TP110 since I assume it'll start showing up in more instruments soon.

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Originally Posted by napilopez
I'm assuming this is all about the Numa X GT right?

100%

Originally Posted by napilopez
the soudn is quite customizeable -- the Numa Player software is suposedly only a small portion of what the piano's built in engine is capable of.
What I've seen in all reviews (including the non XGT versions which basically have got same tone engine) is that each piano has got 4 parameters to edit (already assigned to the 4 edit knobs), that's pretty much it. IMO they're missing many important elements (i.e. some types of resonances) compared to the 15/20 parameters you can tweak on the FP90X or the MP11..

Originally Posted by napilopez
I think I'd be happy if the TP400W it's close to the PHA50. I've always liked that action and to me, even having the grand feel in the MP11SE now, the PHA50 doesn't feel dramatically far.

I play a GF2 (Kawai CA97) which feels fantastic, wouldn't change it (except for the GF3 maybe), but I played the PHA50 many times while trying several models from Roland and I liked it much, it feels fairly different but not in a negative way, I could get used to it since I was able to express from the very first times I played it, so agree with you in this regard. However, I don't know how much similar/different the TP400W is, my guess from what I've seen/read is that it may ressemble a bit more the NWX in the P515 (which I also liked MUCH despite the big difference in feel compared to the GF2/PHA50).

I'm afraid the only way of really answering these questions is trying an XGT hands-on which as you said seems to be difficult in most of our countries. Ordering with a 30 days returning guarantee is another option, nothing wrong at it I presume.

Last edited by overthinker; 05/18/22 04:53 AM.

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Originally Posted by overthinker
What I've seen in all reviews (including the non XGT versions which basically have got same tone engine) is that each piano has got 4 parameters to edit (already assigned to the 4 edit knobs), that's pretty much it. IMO they're missing many important elements (i.e. some types of resonances) compared to the 15/20 parameters you can tweak on the FP90X or the MP11..

Oh wow, it seems you're right. I heard studiologic talk about other features like key off sounds, hammer noises, and releases, and assumed those parameters are editable. but after checking out the manual it seems those things are emulated but not editable. Seems like a waste of modeling!

I suppose that leaves the S9 again as the only other model that might fit my needs.

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My Studiologic Numa X Piano GT should be delivering tomorrow, so I'll give you my *initial* impressions of the action after that smile My guess is not many people in the United States have had a chance to play these due to delays (supply chain and manufacturing). I recently owned an MP11 so I'll be able to compare that as well the feel of a real grand piano action I have in my place.

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Originally Posted by russmagi
My Studiologic Numa X Piano GT should be delivering tomorrow, so I'll give you my *initial* impressions of the action after that smile My guess is not many people in the United States have had a chance to play these due to delays (supply chain and manufacturing). I recently owned an MP11 so I'll be able to compare that as well the feel of a real grand piano action I have in my place.

That's very kind of you! If I may ask, why did you replace the MP11? Looking for something more portable or better sounds?

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Originally Posted by russmagi
My Studiologic Numa X Piano GT should be delivering tomorrow, so I'll give you my *initial* impressions of the action after that smile My guess is not many people in the United States have had a chance to play these due to delays (supply chain and manufacturing). I recently owned an MP11 so I'll be able to compare that as well the feel of a real grand piano action I have in my place.

+1

Originally Posted by napilopez
Oh wow, it seems you're right. I heard studiologic talk about other features like key off sounds, hammer noises, and releases, and assumed those parameters are editable. but after checking out the manual it seems those things are emulated but not editable. Seems like a waste of modeling!

I suppose that leaves the S9 again as the only other model that might fit my needs.

I might be wrong, but I guess the S9 uses (very good) sampled pianos, no modeling there. Also, the GTX has got sampled pianos, the term "modeling" in their marketing refers to some algorithm they use to emulate the resonances, but it's not like Roland's (complete) modeling.

Also, in case you thought otherwise, good samples can be editable too, that's not restricted to fully modeled pianos. You can edit more than 20 very especific parameters on a MP11 despite using sampling technology, and the results are as rich and varied as you could get with say FP90X


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The MP11 was too big and heavy for my taste and it was the first version, not the SE, so I figured it was time. The Numa X GT is much more compact and *should* easily fit in the shell of the Kurzweil Mark 152 I gutted out (which has a real 4'11 baby grand piano case). It's a nerdy project. I kept the speakers from the Mark 152 as well, with the end goal of using them with Pianoteq 7 via a surround sound receiver.

If I end up hating the action, the goal is to add a MIDI strip (PNOScan) to a grand piano action I salvaged from a doomed piano to make it a controller and put that in the piano shell instead as a controller. DIY hybrid grand I suppose.

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Originally Posted by overthinker
Originally Posted by russmagi
My Studiologic Numa X Piano GT should be delivering tomorrow, so I'll give you my *initial* impressions of the action after that smile My guess is not many people in the United States have had a chance to play these due to delays (supply chain and manufacturing). I recently owned an MP11 so I'll be able to compare that as well the feel of a real grand piano action I have in my place.

+1

Originally Posted by napilopez
Oh wow, it seems you're right. I heard studiologic talk about other features like key off sounds, hammer noises, and releases, and assumed those parameters are editable. but after checking out the manual it seems those things are emulated but not editable. Seems like a waste of modeling!

I suppose that leaves the S9 again as the only other model that might fit my needs.

I might be wrong, but I guess the S9 uses (very good) sampled pianos, no modeling there. Also, the GTX has got sampled pianos, the term "modeling" in their marketing refers to some algorithm they use to emulate the resonances, but it's not like Roland's (complete) modeling.

Also, in case you thought otherwise, good samples can be editable too, that's not restricted to fully modeled pianos. You can edit more than 20 very especific parameters on a MP11 despite using sampling technology, and the results are as rich and varied as you could get with say FP90X


My understanding is tha Dexibell's approach is actually quite simila to Studiologic's. They call it the 'True 2 Life' engine and they're using both sampling and modeling. Sampled attacks and modeled resonances basically.

I do have an MP11SE, and I've edited the presets extensively with the virtual technician but the sound still isn't quite there for me. I think it's just the fundamental quality of the samples and resonances in the harmonic imaging XL tech, which is quite old by now. Part of me also feels like the spectral balance is a bit off, kind of like the samples were mixed/edited on non-neutral speakers.

The SK-EX Rendering on the newer Kawais is a whole different matter and to me is one of the few that can rival some of the better VSTs, as Stu Harrizon shows in this video.

Still, I can see how the MP11 was really great when it came out. With a bit of editing, it's good enough that I'm generally happy practicing with it now. Certainly incomparably better than the PX-560's internal sounds.

Originally Posted by russmagi
The MP11 was too big and heavy for my taste and it was the first version, not the SE, so I figured it was time. The Numa X GT is much more compact and *should* easily fit in the shell of the Kurzweil Mark 152 I gutted out (which has a real 4'11 baby grand piano case). It's a nerdy project. I kept the speakers from the Mark 152 as well, with the end goal of using them with Pianoteq 7 via a surround sound receiver.

If I end up hating the action, the goal is to add a MIDI strip (PNOScan) to a grand piano action I salvaged from a doomed piano to make it a controller and put that in the piano shell instead as a controller. DIY hybrid grand I suppose.

Gotcha, and very cool! I hope you end up liking the action. Dexibell at least seems to think that it's good enough for its H10 'Mini Grand'


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Originally Posted by napilopez
My understanding is tha Dexibell's approach is actually quite simila to Studiologic's. They call it the 'True 2 Life' engine and they're using both sampling and modeling. Sampled attacks and modeled resonances basically.

Well, more than just attacks as they advertise "up to 15 second" samples.

Roland's one approach is the sampled attack + modelling. And of course full modelling is the other one.

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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by napilopez
My understanding is tha Dexibell's approach is actually quite simila to Studiologic's. They call it the 'True 2 Life' engine and they're using both sampling and modeling. Sampled attacks and modeled resonances basically.

Well, more than just attacks as they advertise "up to 15 second" samples.

Roland's one approach is the sampled attack + modelling. And of course full modelling is the other one.

+1

If I'm correct, Roland's modeling is SuperNatural (older one) samples+modeling and the PureAccoustic (new one) which is full modeling and only available on the LX705 and upwards + FP90X (not the older FP90)


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There was the "fully muddled" "SuperNATURAL Piano Modeling" (also in the old FP90) before the "Pure Acoustic Piano Modeling".

For those who care about the details. 🤓

(I don't remember if I made any bad joke about "Poor Acoustic Modeling" when the news broke. But let's say that it will be Medeli's next sound engine. 😉

I did joke about Apple getting a "PoorView" camera when Nokia introduced the "PureView". Who's laughing now? 😶)

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There was too much to say about the Numa X Piano GT that I just created a new thread about it lol. http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/topics/3217623.html#Post3217623


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