Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Buying an upright: 3 (4?) way decision paralysis. Help?

Schubert
Sounds like a great plan! Best wishes that it works out do that you can keep the acoustic,

Thanks, @dogperson! And by the way, what a great byline. I do feel like a Work in Progress, and that sentiment is just so healing.

Thanks! I'll keep my eyes peeled in case I come across one.

Thank you, that's good to know!

Thanks! I am truly a WIP— snd reminding myself that is ok really helps quell my impatient soul 😸

Tre corda does not say all practice pedals are musical.There are "better ones" and there are awfull ones.Not the same as practicing without using it.It is just another compromise which is what you will have if you get an accoustic.Perhaps z digital .......😉 ? Best wishes!

I’d recommend an acoustic (with practice pedal) if you had to pick just one…but an additional digital would be a useful and decent consideration, for not too much more money. Whatever you decide to do will be a good choice! Best of luck to you.

Maybe you can buy an acoustic upright that you like and search for a technician who can add a silent system to your piano.

If you can hear conversations and tv, there is a strong probability that your neighbours will hear the piano. Personally it would bother me. I think for a beginner, in the first 2 years, the tone of the piano is not a major criteria. Just being able to play properly a piece, at tempo, with the correct notes and articulation is already a challenge. Any average piano, acoustic or a good digital will work. But i would think a silent system would be mandatory.

I wished I had chosen a 130cm tall one above the 121cm one. my YUS1 is an amazing instrument... but the YUS5 would just be the better one.

and always take an acoustic one. its much better, and also the feeling is better. silent system is amazing.

I think...insofar as it is truly a "digital piano", and seeking to emulate an acoustic piano, especially for the sake of playing Classical repertoire, it will likely always be inferior to the real thing. Often it will have MIDI outputs etc. that allow it other handy abilities (e.g. for recording or composing), but for the simple purpose of practicing and reciting music, a digital piano will never compete well with an acoustic one, assuming their relative quality is about equal. And this is reflected in the price as well. You get what you pay for, overall (but in varying proportions).

If you're calling it a "keyboard", you're then getting over into "synthesizer" territory, which is better for other genres of music. And that's very relevant to consider for a given musician as a whole. Many artists and composers nowadays are very into synths and they can do amazing things on them that a piano could never do and vice versa (naturally).

All that being said, I see a decent-quality digital piano as being suitable for practicing most finger-work, but much less sufficient for working on tone (regarding for instance, canonical piano repertoire). That goes for beginners and intermediate as well as advanced. It's important to develop good musical habits early on, and bad ones are more likely to happen on an instrument that is essentially a simplification of the real thing.

But I could see it being a good backup for certain types of practice, if you're living in a place that isn't total, sound-insulated isolation (and not many have that). Furthermore, with the option of headphones (especially the noise-canceling variety), you can also block out external sounds more easily with a digital. This allows you some precious focus during those times you might feel inspired to practice, but which are entirely out of any synchronized convenience with the schedules of those around you.

For what it's worth, I think the practice pedal is a pretty amazing thing that can offer the best of both worlds, for situations like this one. I like the idea of any musician, regardless of ability, who is serious about playing, to find a middle ground that allows them regular, comfortable access, to the best instrument available, to nourish and develop their musical desires.

I figure the Schimmel or Boston (or some other piano you find you really like) would be a great thing for you. I believe these both have nice "celeste" style practice pedals that will turn you into a dream neighbor during quieter hours. General transparency about your musical intentions, and being on good terms with the neighbors, will make you feel more comfortable about practicing, and will make them happy as well.

However, I think the practice pedal doesn't do enough to really quiet the bass. At least on my upright piano at home, which is a U1, the practice pedal works wonderfully for the upper register, and then all of the sudden it becomes very loud as you get into the bass range. Is this how most are? I don't have much experience with other pianos.

So without a silent system on an acoustic, I think a digital piano is really a nice thing during those late hours or whatever. It would only be an added benefit during times when the acoustic piano just wasn't feasible.

I have noticed that some newer pianos tend to have much better practice pedals where the all the notes and action sound even.The touch is likewise very good.Terminaldegree mentions his success in practicing with a practice pedal.My older U1 had an awfull practice pedal.( from the 80's) The OP is the only one who can judge whether a Digital would be best for his situation.

Hi all! Thank you so much for your thoughtful replies. I can tell the sincere concern and support in them, and it's awesome to find such a community.

I've done one day of shopping, and here's my progress update.

Last night, I measured the level at which I normally play my current keyboard. It was in the low 40 dbs, or about the level of a normal indoor conversation. My goal is to stick to this level maximum.


I tried the Schimmel. First, I was surprised because the tone was different than I remembered it; I did not hear the bell-like resonant quality that had attracted me so much to it at first. Second, I measured the volume (a tricky thing to do, as it depends how far and where you are in relation to the source of sound, so I tried to be as consistent as possible by measuring it right at the top of the soundboard as I measured it similarly to the speakers of my keyboard) with the practice pedal. It was no good-not much different than without the practice pedal: in the 60-70 db range in normal mp-mf. The felt on the celeste rail can be changed to thicker, but I'm not hopeful that will cause such as drastic reduction while still remaining musical.

So, that option is out--I couldn't use it for daily practice. I'm going to have to look for a piano to play mostly digitally, while having as acoustic a touch as possible.

So, I tried the acoustic hybrid, Kawai K200 with atx4 again, and I was surprised by how my impressions changed! I liked it quite a lot this time. Its tone seemed good, but I was most surprised that the touch seemed fine this time--not plastic-y as I had thought last time. Very interesting. Obviously, it is a good solution, and I received a quote which I think is within a reasonable range. What is equally important, is that I did get genuinely excited about this piano. Which is important to me--I want to get something I can love and that inspires me to play.

I also tried digital pianos while I was at the Kawai dealer. Neither I nor my pianist friend who came along thought they offered a comparable experience to the K200-atx4, with the exception of the NV5s. But at that price point (not too different from the hybrid K200), for me, I prefer the hybrid with at least the acoustic possibility.

Tomorrow, I see the Boston (on which the dealer offered to install a silent system), and will try the K200 again.

Good luck to your journey and I wish you can find right one. About the change in touch and tone of a particular piano in different timings, I also experienced the same with my own piano from time to time. I guess that there are many factors can impact an acoustic piano: humidity, tune … About post manufacturer installation of silent system, my technician seems advise against it, he prefer the one is installed originally inside the factory. However I am not sure he has variety of knowledge on the issue. Hope that the other forum members can share their experiences and knowledge.

Try a Kawai NV5s.
Mine has changed my mind about what I need.
Now I want a real piano because I think that is what I "need", but keep asking myself, "What for?".

Thank you, Vin! You're right about the changing tones. It was a particularly humid day on Saturday, but then again, it was a good test. Also, in the end, I decided not to go with the silent system install, as the Boston acoustic was not prepared properly (the celeste rail not intervening low enough), the pedal slipping...and that did not inspire my confidence for such a major surgery.

The NV5s was very tempting indeed! In fact it was the other candidate in my final 2. I think it really has a touch that is indistinguishable from an acoustic and has many benefits, of course.

For me, I decided for the K200-atx4 in the end. But I would have been very happy with the NV5s, there were no bad choices between those two. Enjoy your instrument! (You and me both).

Congrats on the new K200 ATX 😊. Pics please when it is delivered!

So, to provide a final update, I decided for, and am currently arranging delivery, of a Kawai K200-atx4.

I plan to use it silently (=headphones) for daily practice, & with my own bluetooth speakers at a low level (~low 40dbs, about the level of a normal indoor conversation) when I want to do a short runthrough (before 8pm, of course).

I also recruited some friends to do placement & volume tests over the weekend, and we were very pleasantly surprised regarding the shared hallway and outside of the window (which I had been most concerned about, sound traveling from my window to other folks' windows). The external walls were very good, which I knew about, but I was shocked that windows would be completely OK (we had to call my friend to make sure he had played, because we didn't hear at all!). He was playing my current keyboard at an acoustic piano's volume, 70-80db for mp-mf.

Of course, floors, ceilings, and adjacent walls, I don't know about yet and they are likely a completely different story. Yesterday being a nice Sunday, the neighbors I know best were out of the house and I could not get their feedback. But we're confident we found a good placement for it by an internal wall, and we ended up finding material in my closets with which to build a little platform for it: leftover vinyl flooring with foam backing + a large rubber mat + a thick rug pad with rubber backing. On top of that, we'll put a 2" rug that I ordered. And, I also have another 1" area rug, perfectly sized, that will go behind the soundboard. I also am doing research about Acoustimac panels and soundproofing curtains.

Anyway, the plan now is to, with patience and thorough research, work on sound absorption in the room over time so that I can try my piano acoustically in the long term. I am very hopeful now that it will work out, at least with the celeste pedal, and working together with neighbors. I already feel relieved that the co-op management had no problems with it, and are being helpful about the delivery.

But, in any case, I'm happy to have gotten an instrument with an acoustic action that I can use digitally. Either way, it should meet my needs and wants, and it is a lot of fun to play it.

I'm kind of proud...it is the biggest gift I've given myself in my adult life so far.

Many thanks to those who contributed thoughts & advice...and now, to find a teacher!

Thank you! I'm super thrilled