2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
40 members (BobTB, Andrew E., butchkoch, axomas, brdwyguy, bwv543, aphexdisklavier, Animisha, 7 invisible), 3,129 guests, and 276 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 5
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 5
Hi folks,

Long-time reader, first-time poster.

I placed a deposit on a new Sauter Pure Noble today after much in-person and online/forum research.

Perhaps it goes without saying but I am very much looking forward to playing *my own* acoustic piano. My teacher suggested getting an acoustic a while ago, but I wanted to make sure I was committed before jumping in. And here we are.

The Sauter will replace my first piano, which I still love: a Roland FP90 digital. I’ve had it for about three years, and while I feel it has a great action for a digital (the venerable PHA-50), we’re obviously entering completely different territory with the Sauter.

Not having room for a grand, it was down to a few of the usual suspects in the higher end 122cm/48”+ pool. I played a few (and listened to the ones I couldn’t get my hands on) and fell in love with the Sauter’s sound and action.

While I didn’t get to play a Sauter Pure Noble, given that it’s functionally and sonically equivalent to the Masterclass 122, I am not worried about having technically ordered it sight unseen, since a few folks here have done so with great success, and since Sauter has notoriously meticulous factory preparation standards.

Happy to answer any questions I can now, or after it arrives next summer—yes, you read that right, according to my dealer it won’t be here until early to mid summer 2023!—but wanted to share in the meantime since so many of you helped me arrive at this decision.

With much gratitude to the community,
pianomanatee


Ars gratia artis
  • Sauter 122 “Pure Noble” (eta Summer ‘23)
  • Roland FP-90
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 624
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 624
Congrats! 🎊
It will be a great piano! 🎹🙂

I’m sorry it will take a year to get it though!

Personally I think it should be OK ordering without playing though.

Best wishes! 😁
- Blue

Last edited by probably blue; 05/23/22 07:29 PM.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,031

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
8000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until December 31, 2022
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,031
Congratulations! The year will fly by. thumb


How to Upload Pictures
“If it sounds good, it IS good.” ― Duke Ellington!

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 5
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 5
Thank you Blue and Retsanal! I hope so, but I think it’s going to feel like a loooong wait.

For those who aren’t familiar, here’s a photo from a royalpianos.com listing. They’re not my dealer, but fun photos smile

EDIT: linked image not working. Here’s a link to the listing.

Last edited by pianomanatee; 05/23/22 07:57 PM.

Ars gratia artis
  • Sauter 122 “Pure Noble” (eta Summer ‘23)
  • Roland FP-90
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 624
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 624
Epic!

I’m sure it will look even better in your home!

Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 905
S
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 905
Congratulations! 🎉🎈🎊 hopefully the year doesn’t drag on too long!

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,813
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,813
Oh cool! Congratulations!! Going from a digital to an upright is amazing, you will love it!!

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that kind of lid in person, and while I have seen photos of it before, I sort of thought I that style was no longer being made. But it’s a very cool look! Especially paired with the European case style (what I always called “legless”)

So when do you take delivery?


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 624
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 624
Leg less! I call it floating keyboard!

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,031
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,031
😉

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,885
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 10,885
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Oh cool! Congratulations!! Going from a digital to an upright is amazing, you will love it!!

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that kind of lid in person, and while I have seen photos of it before, I sort of thought I that style was no longer being made. But it’s a very cool look! Especially paired with the European case style (what I always called “legless”)

So when do you take delivery?

Summer of 2023

Last edited by dogperson; 05/24/22 11:58 AM. Reason: Typo

"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,813
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,813
Dogperson, thanks! That's such a painfully long wait, I must have subconsciously skipped over it in the original post! whome


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,031
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,031
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Dogperson, thanks! That's such a painfully long wait, I must have subconsciously skipped over it in the original post! whome
Well I suppose they have no machinery..

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,031
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,031
Originally Posted by tre corda
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Dogperson, thanks! That's such a painfully long wait, I must have subconsciously skipped over it in the original post! whome
Well I suppose they have no machinery..
I am trying to think why you would have to wait a whole year.It would take at most a few months to build the piano.The only reason I can think of is the dealer will not be receiving more Sauter pianos for a whole year.I suppose they need to fill a container with minimum of 10, or 15 pianos? Have you asked how much it would cost to have it sent by air freight from the factory? I personally would not be interested in waiting for a piano for so long.

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,845
G
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,845
Originally Posted by tre corda
I am trying to think why you would have to wait a whole year.It would take at most a few months to build the piano.The only reason I can think of is the dealer will not be receiving more Sauter pianos for a whole year.I suppose they need to fill a container with minimum of 10, or 15 pianos? Have you asked how much it would cost to have it sent by air freight from the factory? I personally would not be interested in waiting for a piano for so long.

From what I have seen, this is common with the smaller makers, including Sauter, Fazioli, Bosendorfer, even Shigeru Kawai.

Part of it is dealer allotment, but remember that Sauter makes only 500 pianos a year for the entire global market (some like Fazioli make closer to 100 a year). Presuming half are grands and half are verticals, that's 250 for the entire world market. In today's market, they are typically fully committed for the current year's supply, meaning everything they build this year is already spoken for. If you order today, they won't even get around to start building it until sometime next year.

How do you get such a piano in 2-3 months? You find a dealer who has an order in from last year and of just awaiting final delivery. Maybe later stage changes such as type of casters or installation of aftermarket silent mechanism can still be added at that stage.

I had the option of a 2023 delivery on a new order too, and like you, i felt that kind of wait was too hard to stomach.


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV-10
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 32,662
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 32,662
The OP wanted a very specific model which probably has to be special ordered, right? That's probably why it's taking so long. I would assume most Sauter dealers generally have some Sauters on the showroom floor. If not, it would be difficult for them to sell those maker's pianos.

There is probably a problem due to the shipping situation on all products around the world but that only applies to the present time. Also, some makers reduced production at the beginning of the pandemic because it was thought that demand for pianos would decrease.

In NYC, at least in the pre pandemic and before the shipping crisis, all the dealers who sell piano from smaller manufacturers regularly had pianos from those makers on the floor. I don't think it's true except maybe for the last few years that for Sauter or other small makers every piano is sold before it reaches the dealer. In fact, if that were true, how could buyers follow the standard advice of trying the piano before buying?

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,845
G
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,845
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I don't think it's true except maybe for the last few years that for Sauter or other small makers every piano is sold before it reaches the dealer. In fact, if that were true, how could buyers follow the standard advice of trying the piano before buying?

I assume you are right about the exceptional circumstances of today's market.

I've definitely been into dealers where they have zero stock to try, or you have to try a different model than what you were looking for. You could buy what you tried, but maybe that would be a 150 instead of a 165.

I think in any case, a special order from scratch takes months.


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV-10
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,031
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,031
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by tre corda
I am trying to think why you would have to wait a whole year.It would take at most a few months to build the piano.The only reason I can think of is the dealer will not be receiving more Sauter pianos for a whole year.I suppose they need to fill a container with minimum of 10, or 15 pianos? Have you asked how much it would cost to have it sent by air freight from the factory? I personally would not be interested in waiting for a piano for so long.

From what I have seen, this is common with the smaller makers, including Sauter, Fazioli, Bosendorfer, even Shigeru Kawai.

Part of it is dealer allotment, but remember that Sauter makes only 500 pianos a year for the entire global market (some like Fazioli make closer to 100 a year). Presuming half are grands and half are verticals, that's 250 for the entire world market. In today's market, they are typically fully committed for the current year's supply, meaning everything they build this year is already spoken for. If you order today, they won't even get around to start building it until sometime next year.

How do you get such a piano in 2-3 months? You find a dealer who has an order in from last year and of just awaiting final delivery. Maybe later stage changes such as type of casters or installation of aftermarket silent mechanism can still be added at that stage.

I had the option of a 2023 delivery on a new order too, and like you, i felt that kind of wait was too hard to stomach.
It will take a number of months but not as much as you think.I suspect they make more pianos than 500.The cabinet itself in this case will.take time.It alao has the hardware of a MC or so the OP says.Pianoloverus is correct in what he says.If you just look online there are a number of Sauter pianos in stores.Its no secret.

Last edited by tre corda; 05/25/22 12:59 PM.
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,845
G
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,845
Originally Posted by tre corda
If you just look online there are a number of Sauter pianos in stores.Its no secret.

Sure, I bet there a number of the exact model available for sale, too, they're just at different dealers throughout the world and the market isn't really liquid/efficient to any degree when dealing with a single shop. A specific dealer only gets x a year so if you want it from them, you will have to wait. OTOH, if you shop around, you can find it elsewhere (that's exactly what I did, btw).

I was told by numerous shops for different brands (Bosendorfer 200 and 214VC, Fazioli 212, Schimmel K-series, Sauter Delta, Steingraeber 232) that 2022 capacity were already committed, and sometime between spring-fall 2023 is when any order "placed today" would be delivered. Maybe it's exceptional to our times, but what I experienced seems in line with OP.


Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV-10
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 32,662
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 32,662
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by tre corda
If you just look online there are a number of Sauter pianos in stores.Its no secret.

Sure, I bet there a number of the exact model available for sale, too, they're just at different dealers throughout the world and the market isn't really liquid/efficient to any degree when dealing with a single shop. A specific dealer only gets x a year so if you want it from them, you will have to wait. OTOH, if you shop around, you can find it elsewhere (that's exactly what I did, btw).

I was told by numerous shops for different brands (Bosendorfer 200 and 214VC, Fazioli 212, Schimmel K-series, Sauter Delta, Steingraeber 232) that 2022 capacity were already committed, and sometime between spring-fall 2023 is when any order "placed today" would be delivered. Maybe it's exceptional to our times, but what I experienced seems in line with OP.
Of course, it's exceptional to our times. Piano stores would all go out of business if having to wait a year to get a piano you haven't even had the chance to try out was the norm.

The wait is mostly due to the reasons I mentioned previously, the shipping problem and the fact that some makers reduced production at the beginning of the pandemic. The present situation is not the norm. Even now, if you want a specific model from a dealer you may or may not have to wait. It depends on the model and the dealer. The OP wanted an art case model which is less likely to be available at a given dealer.

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,031
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,031
The wait was not more than about 5 months for a regular 122 model Sauter upright that a friend of mine ordered.In that other thread the OP said there were at least 2 other Masterclass pianos available from that big dealer in Hong Kong.That surprised me!!! In Canada they had the same dealer where there were 3 Delta grands waiting to be sold at one time.These Maly designed uprights are special, a lot of the cost and price go into the design of the cabinet.To me not really a "pianists piano" Here's one with a beautiful finish.I am not saying they have them in stock.The only way to know if any dealer has one of these is to phone or of course by visiting a store.
https://www.europianosnaples.com/products/sauter-model-pure-cayenne/

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha Piano P80 vs P120
by Love Musictc - 06/30/22 05:16 AM
Modulation Help...
by @joycepersonal - 06/30/22 04:07 AM
Kawai VPC 1 / Pianoteq latency question
by DFx - 06/29/22 10:35 PM
Best tuning hammer for $100
by onerj - 06/29/22 05:56 PM
Mendolson-Liszt Lieder s.547
by danno858 - 06/29/22 04:28 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics213,736
Posts3,204,360
Members105,678
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5