2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
63 members (ChickenBrother, Carey, brdwyguy, Belger1900, BlackKnight, Aaron McKeon, Coaster MB, 16 invisible), 579 guests, and 308 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 920
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 920
Hi

There isn't really a minimum practise time, as different people progress at different speeds. The simple rule is the more you practise the better you'll get.

If you start as a complete beginner and do 20mins a day you'll make decent progress for a while, then progress will slow down and eventually you'll probably give up.

I've never really timed myself in respect of practising. The idea that say I have to do 1.5 hours a day at a set time makes it seem like a job to me. I practise and play when I feel like it these days, which is most days.

But I'm mainly not a classical pianist so I don't have a 'repertoire' of pieces, though I suppose I have a non-classical repertoire. I always play the blues everytime I sit at a Piano. And certainly when I was younger, particularly in my 20s I practised a heck of a lot to develop what limited technique I have.

Cheers


Simon

Vox Continental 73
Casio PX-S3000
Pearl Midtown Drums
Thomann Vibraphone








(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,052
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,052
My view is that if you have to set minimums then you're not really loving piano and you're bound to quit at some point. Sorry for being blunt but that's what I believe.

I generally don't watch the clock but sometimes I have to set maximums on certain things or else I get carried and then don't have enough time to practice other thing that I want to practice.

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 920
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 920
Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
My view is that if you have to set minimums then you're not really loving piano and you're bound to quit at some point. Sorry for being blunt but that's what I believe.

I think you're right and that was what I was implying when I said it becomes like a job. You'll start making excuses not to practise, and then it's a downhill slope.

That said I'm sure there are some people for whom it does work, and no doubt there are many great Pianists who didn't neccessarily always enjoy the hours and hours they spent practising. But they had the will power (and time) to do it, and ultimately got their reward.

Cheers


Simon

Vox Continental 73
Casio PX-S3000
Pearl Midtown Drums
Thomann Vibraphone








Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,671
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,671
Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
My view is that if you have to set minimums then you're not really loving piano and you're bound to quit at some point. Sorry for being blunt but that's what I believe.

As i understand from the blog, the minimums are not to coerce the OP to sit at the piano and practise, but to make sure that their practice is diverse.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,035
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,035
I think the idea of other people using some relative beginner's or even intermediate's blog(I'm referring to the OP here) and their recommended practice times for various parts of piano practice makes little sense. A beginner is not qualified to make recommendations. Unless they've tried many different times for the parts of piano practice they don't really even know if what they post on their blog is best for them no less for other people.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,443
S
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,443
If the general idea is that it is usefull to structure one's practice so that various activities can be performed (a little of tech work, pieces, sight reading, ....), that makes sense. How much of each and how long is something that the teacher will adjust based on the specific situation of each student.


Bl├╝thner model 6
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Originally Posted by Sidokar
If the general idea is that it is usefull to structure one's practice so that various activities can be performed (a little of tech work, pieces, sight reading, ....), that makes sense. How much of each and how long is something that the teacher will adjust based on the specific situation of each student.


There are many here in the ABF that are self-teaching. I hope none believe 10 min minimum working on repertoire is a sufficient minimum.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,035
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,035
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Sidokar
If the general idea is that it is usefull to structure one's practice so that various activities can be performed (a little of tech work, pieces, sight reading, ....), that makes sense. How much of each and how long is something that the teacher will adjust based on the specific situation of each student.


There are many here in the ABF that are self-teaching. I hope none believe 10 min minimum working on repertoire is a sufficient minimum.
Of course, and that's why information on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt unless it comes from acknowledged experts. I think if one practices one hour, 30 minutes out of that is the bare minimum one should be working on repertoire and probably closer to 40-45 minutes.

Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 431
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 431
@ Pianoloverus: And the piece that you are currently learning, is that included in repertoire or next to it?

Last edited by Josephine83; 05/14/22 02:05 PM.
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 102
B
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by Simon_b
Hi

There isn't really a minimum practise time, as different people progress at different speeds. The simple rule is the more you practise the better you'll get.

If you start as a complete beginner and do 20mins a day you'll make decent progress for a while, then progress will slow down and eventually you'll probably give up.

I've never really timed myself in respect of practising. The idea that say I have to do 1.5 hours a day at a set time makes it seem like a job to me. I practise and play when I feel like it these days, which is most days.

But I'm mainly not a classical pianist so I don't have a 'repertoire' of pieces, though I suppose I have a non-classical repertoire. I always play the blues everytime I sit at a Piano. And certainly when I was younger, particularly in my 20s I practised a heck of a lot to develop what limited technique I have.

Cheers
I agree! I think, even as a more advanced student, if there is something quite specific you're trying to practice, you can make progress with short sessions as long as it's specific enough.

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 102
B
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
My view is that if you have to set minimums then you're not really loving piano and you're bound to quit at some point. Sorry for being blunt but that's what I believe.

I generally don't watch the clock but sometimes I have to set maximums on certain things or else I get carried and then don't have enough time to practice other thing that I want to practice.
I would think minimums and maximums go hand in hand. You set a minimum amount of time for various aspects of what you're working on so that you can cover everything. smile

We tend to work on things which are easy to us if left to our own devices. I have found that setting a time limit for something hard for me, such as sight-reading, helps motivate me to push through the tiredness. I think you still need to face the mental tiredness, even if you like what you're doing. How would you tackle that?

Often what you need to do in order to improve isn't the most fun part of playing the piano. You don't really love every moment of practicing. And I think that's okay, and doesn't automatically mean that you aren't loving the piano.

Joined: May 2021
Posts: 102
B
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 102
Thank you for your comments, everyone! I just quickly wanted to reply to a few points.
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think the idea of other people using some relative beginner's or even intermediate's blog(I'm referring to the OP here) and their recommended practice times for various parts of piano practice makes little sense.

Originally Posted by dogperson
There are many here in the ABF that are self-teaching. I hope none believe 10 min minimum working on repertoire is a sufficient minimum.

I try to be clear that I'm documenting my own experience and progress at the piano. That includes all the false starts and walking back on stuff. It might give someone ideas on their own practice, but it certainly shouldn't be taken at face value. I think that much is obvious. That said, please read what I wrote -- this was the minimum amount of time I thought of giving to practice a particular activity, and it's by no means the maximum -- those 10 minutes could very well stretch into an hour. It's just the minimum amount of time I found in which I could complete one "practice thought" while practicing.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think if one practices one hour, 30 minutes out of that is the bare minimum one should be working on repertoire and probably closer to 40-45 minutes.
I think this depends on your goals. I can see situations where the time would be better spent sight-reading, or even practicing scales and technical exercises. I also never follow schedules for the most part, so what I say would probably be geared towards those on that end of the spectrum, for whom their practice is too unstructured. Having an overly structured practice regimen can also be detrimental, but I'm really not qualified to talk about that since I've never actually experienced that!

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,041
J
jdw Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,041
Originally Posted by KenBakerMN
Have you read Kenny Werner's "Effortless Mastery"? He argues, convincingly I think, that you should focus on one thing until you master it. Part of what makes that approach work is limiting the scope of what counts as "one thing". If your one thing is learn to improvise like Chick Corea, that's probably too big a bite. But if your one thing is a nugget like learn the altered scale over a dominant chord, or learn bars 32 through 40 of this tricky piece I'm working on, then it's a manageable chunk.

If I understand Kenny's point, which is by no means a certainty, it's better to spend enough time on one thing and master it, rather than try to cover five different things every practice.

I use this book a lot (to help with performance anxiety), but I think his main point is a bit different. He does talk about sticking with one thing till it's mastered, but the key practice for him is approaching the music in an effortless, meditative state. He knows that you may only be able to keep that kind of focus for short stretches at a time (like 5 or 10 minutes), and that mastering a single thing to the point of effortless playing may take many months. If you're too eager to get to the end result, it doesn't work because it's really about practicing letting go of effort until the music becomes easy.

The rest of the practicing we do, because we have a lot of music we want and/or need to learn, doesn't count as "practice" in his sense at all. But the benefits of practicing his detached approach do carry over into playing other things.


1989 Baldwin R
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,052
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,052
Originally Posted by BlizzardPiano
Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
My view is that if you have to set minimums then you're not really loving piano and you're bound to quit at some point. Sorry for being blunt but that's what I believe.

I generally don't watch the clock but sometimes I have to set maximums on certain things or else I get carried and then don't have enough time to practice other thing that I want to practice.
I would think minimums and maximums go hand in hand. You set a minimum amount of time for various aspects of what you're working on so that you can cover everything. smile

We tend to work on things which are easy to us if left to our own devices. I have found that setting a time limit for something hard for me, such as sight-reading, helps motivate me to push through the tiredness. I think you still need to face the mental tiredness, even if you like what you're doing. How would you tackle that?

Often what you need to do in order to improve isn't the most fun part of playing the piano. You don't really love every moment of practicing. And I think that's okay, and doesn't automatically mean that you aren't loving the piano.
Actually, if left to my own devices I might work on a challenging passage for any length of time until I feel it has improved. I like being challenged and solving problems. Doing easy stuff bores me.

Dealing with mental tiredness is easy - just take a break. I typically take several breaks during my practice but soon urge to get back to the bench is too strong to resist and I have to go back to practice.

If you find sight reading hard just think of it as a way to explore new music. Try playing anything you can find that's interesting even if it's too hard to sight read fluently. I often play just the opening phrase or main theme of some Chopin nocturne or Beethoven sonata, or anything else I like just to satisfy an inner craving for having that music come from under my fingers (I already know what it sounds like but want to play it myself). I wouldn't say I can sight read such music fluently but if I practice it a couple of times I can play a few bars of advanced music. Even though it's not strictly speaking sight reading I can assure you that this doing this has improved my reading by light years, and most importantly it's very fun. No need to set time minimums when you're doing something fun, right?

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,035
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,035
Originally Posted by Josephine83
@ Pianoloverus: And the piece that you are currently learning, is that included in repertoire or next to it?
Repertoire includes pieces in any stage of learning.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,035
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,035
Originally Posted by BlizzardPiano
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think if one practices one hour, 30 minutes out of that is the bare minimum one should be working on repertoire and probably closer to 40-45 minutes.
I think this depends on your goals. I can see situations where the time would be better spent sight-reading, or even practicing scales and technical exercises. I also never follow schedules for the most part, so what I say would probably be geared towards those on that end of the spectrum, for whom their practice is too unstructured. Having an overly structured practice regimen can also be detrimental, but I'm really not qualified to talk about that since I've never actually experienced that!
On a given day devoting less than 50% of practice time to learning pieces might be reasonable, but on the average over a week or so it makes little sense for almost everyone. That's why highly experienced pianists on this thread like Bruce, dogperson, and seeker said basically the same thing.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 05/15/22 09:22 AM.
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 242
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 242
I normally do not have more than 20-30 minutes daily to practice, work, family you know. Therefore I spend literally like minute or two just to warm up finger (scale, arpeggios, or some other excercises), and I go straight ahead to my repertoire.

I do not play by time, but by things I want to achieve. Not always possible.

I do not play on days when I am too tired or my head is too busy, as it's just counterproductive.

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,671
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,671
Originally Posted by maucycy
I normally do not have more than 20-30 minutes daily to practice, work, family you know. Therefore I spend literally like minute or two just to warm up finger (scale, arpeggios, or some other excercises), and I go straight ahead to my repertoire.

I spend literally zero minutes to warm up. I have never felt the need for it. But then, I don't play very fast.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,654
T
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,654
When you get into more advanced pieces, some warm-up is better than no warm-up including stretching exercises away from the piano. The violinist Yehudi Menuhin did meditation and made his students do Yoga to get the mind & body in shape. Warm-up before playing lower level pieces not a big deal.

Playing progress is incremental. Putting in 10 minutes a day may be enough to do beginner pieces. As the pieces gets more advanced, you need to put in more time. The first 10 minutes just to sight read a piece from top to bottom. Very few people can practice 2+ hours continuously so we take breaks in between.

When we're learning a piece for a music lesson / for fun, we can take all the time we want. When we have a performance coming up, we'd practice as much as possible. There is a deadline and we need to bring the pieces up to the performance level before the event. Time is not on our side.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Nature Boy in different keys
by Jt2nd - 08/15/22 07:17 PM
Boston Vertical string breakage
by P W Grey - 08/15/22 04:33 PM
cantabile
by SouthPark - 08/15/22 04:29 PM
Finish on 1963 Kawai 7'4" grand.
by Donald1 - 08/15/22 04:23 PM
Teaching while pursuing non-music degree?
by txpianoplayer - 08/15/22 03:21 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics214,416
Posts3,216,615
Members106,089
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5