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You see a lot of Steinways because it's considered the best-sounding acoustic piano.
You see a lot of Yamaha because it is the TOYOTA Corolla of the acoustic pianos.
You don't see many Kawai's because it's like Subaru, purchased mostly by pianists who appreciate its sound but don't want to break the bank.
I've never heard anything so on-point
That's pretty much true, ain't nobody buys a Subaru by accident/default (speaking as the owner of two Subarus over the years).
Not sure that there is a massive difference in quality between the best Kawai, Yamaha and Steinway.
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
I'm talking about public perception, not performance/tone. Steinway = the ubiquitous concert hall/luxury piano brand. Yamaha = the everyday standard piano brand (uprights and grands, home and institutional).
I would 100% rather drive a Camry over a MB, any day.
I'm talking about public perception, not performance/tone. Steinway = the ubiquitous concert hall/luxury piano brand. Yamaha = the everyday standard piano brand (uprights and grands, home and institutional).
What is curious is that VST buyers know a little more than the "public". Steingraeber is a very well renown brand, but not known by most non-musician people. However, only Pianoteq seems to be interested to emulate it. I do think that a well done Steingraeber VST could have enough buyers.
Last edited by Frédéric L; 06/14/2203:45 PM.
http://www.sinerj.org/ http://humeur-synthe.sinerj.org/ Yamaha N1X, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
yamaha and kawai are both like toyota camry. Hailun/PearlR is like toyota corolla.
Steinwas is like Cadillac, no one cares what they make.
The rest are like local microbrews, not good, not bad, but hey let's buy it because we're from there.
Es110, RHC pianos = TESLA.
Are we sure these comparisons with car manufacturers are helpful? The Toyota Camry---as far as I know ---isn't exactly in any way exciting to drive unless you trash it rallying lol!
As anyone played in a showroom the CFX grand, SK EX grand and Steinway D 274? in one sitting? Does anybody actually have a subjective view of the pianos resulting from an objective experience?
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
What is curious is that VST buyers know a little more than the "public". Steingraeber is a very well renown brand, but not known by most non-musician people. However, only Pianoteq seems to be interested to emulate it. I do think that a well done Steingraeber VST could have enough buyers.
That's my experience (and what I was trying to say above). Even pianists aren't really knowledgeable about all the brands out there. It seems unless you're shopping for one!
My shopping shortlist included the Steingraeber D-232, which was a phenomenal instrument (I was looking for a C-212 but none were available). From what I know of Steingraeber, I would put money down that they contacted Pianoteq rather than the other way around.
I think a perfect Steingraeber VST would sell horribly. It doesn't matter how good the instrument is, nobody knows who they are and that's a huge mountain to climb.
I think a perfect Steingraeber VST would sell horribly. It doesn't matter how good the instrument is, nobody knows who they are and that's a huge mountain to climb.
Couldn't the manufacturer simply label it "Large German Grand", and leave it to sell itself like hotcakes?
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
As anyone played in a showroom the CFX grand, SK EX grand and Steinway D 274? in one sitting? Does anybody actually have a subjective view of the pianos resulting from an objective experience?
This is a long term problem in the piano industry. at this point, technologically pianos are commodities. so manufacturers rely on the same method as liquor and jewelry to hock their product. the market is wholly divided by vanity pricing/ labor intensive workmanship and not productive outcome. this over the long term leads to development stagnation, as innovators are not monetarily incentivized. steinwas can sell a piece of crap for $150,000, why would kawai innovate and make a better piano to earn less money. here we are on a downward spiral. one of these companies need to start aggressively mining the bottom line and go on the offensive to make piano cheaper and more exciting, otherwise, piano is headed the way of the butter churn.
What is curious is that VST buyers know a little more than the "public". Steingraeber is a very well renown brand, but not known by most non-musician people. However, only Pianoteq seems to be interested to emulate it. I do think that a well done Steingraeber VST could have enough buyers.
That's my experience (and what I was trying to say above). Even pianists aren't really knowledgeable about all the brands out there. It seems unless you're shopping for one!
My shopping shortlist included the Steingraeber D-232, which was a phenomenal instrument (I was looking for a C-212 but none were available). From what I know of Steingraeber, I would put money down that they contacted Pianoteq rather than the other way around.
I think a perfect Steingraeber VST would sell horribly. It doesn't matter how good the instrument is, nobody knows who they are and that's a huge mountain to climb.
That's a common problem for most smaller or less known companies: getting your product into the mind of the buyer.
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
What is curious is that VST buyers know a little more than the "public". Steingraeber is a very well renown brand, but not known by most non-musician people. However, only Pianoteq seems to be interested to emulate it. I do think that a well done Steingraeber VST could have enough buyers.
I think a perfect Steingraeber VST would sell horribly. It doesn't matter how good the instrument is, nobody knows who they are and that's a huge mountain to climb.
I would contest this, actually. Again: see the Ravenscroft 275. The only reason most people know about the piano is because of the VST, not the other way around.
So I guess it would sell horribly if the VST weren't that good. But if it's great out of the box, I bet it'd sell very well.
I would contest this, actually. Again: see the Ravenscroft 275. The only reason most people know about the piano is because of the VST, not the other way around.
So I guess it would sell horribly if the VST weren't that good. But if it's great out of the box, I bet it'd sell very well.
Agreed, my point was only that the name wouldn't sell the VST. But if the VST became popular on its own merits (or for reasons other than the brand of the piano), then the VST could definitely help sell the piano!
Unfortunately, only popular names are being sampled. Also as state by others, who besides pianists knows what Grotrian or Sauter is? On the other hand, you have a lot of unnamed piano like "German Grand" - which can be from Bechstein to Sauter and anything in between. I think more problem is in how those VST are made than what brand they actually sampled. On the other hand everyone knows what Ravenscroft is due to VST, as mentioned above.
Regarding Pianoteq - I think it's good promotion for Grotrian, Petrof and Steingraeber to gain knowledge through keyboard players around the world. They just bring their presence to a wide market, which otherwise wouldn't be possible. Actually Grotrian is my favourite of all Pianoteq. It's win win for everyone - Moddart can get more customers, and piano manufactuers more prospective customers.
But the Yamaha models that are usually sampled are those that give me the impression of Camry, Corolla, etc... and the Bosendorfer is like the Lexus.
I'm pretty sure about my conclusion LOL
I think having heard the Merriam Music (Stu Harrison) video comparing the NV5S versus Garritan CFX Grand and VSL Steinway Hamburg D-274...
...I'm of the opinion that whilst the Kawai sample is by no means miles away, the CFX and Steinway D VST's are a step or two better.
Thus, I feel that there is market for a multi-gigabyte Kawai sampled piano or an Kawai SK-EX concert grand patch in Pianoteq
Pianoteq should for sure create a Kawai model, as they have modelled a Yamaha.
Last edited by Doug M.; 06/15/2210:31 AM.
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
Pianoteq should for sure create a Kawai model, as they have modelled a Yamaha.
I think there are enough Kawai DPs (as well as uprights/grands) out there where the SK-EX would be recognized (somewhat ironically, much more so than a Grotrian-Steinweg, Seiler or Bluthner).
