2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
79 members (AB99, anotherscott, Aaron McKeon, Animisha, Belger1900, bluebillytwo, accordeur, 17 invisible), 647 guests, and 282 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,905
peterws Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,905
The ABF recital is a great place to pick up new stuff, whether you're looking for it, or whether you're not. Truth is, you'll sooner or later succumb to the temptation of buying stuff that grabs you, and ther's plenty in there to do just that.
I'd been trying to get a decent play-list of varied stuff that I've played from the present and past when, at the last recital, I picked up on a tune from PianogrlNW (Ellen) which grabbed my undivided.
It's not the first time she's done this on me!

So, back on the treadmill I go!
Hammering a new tune into this rapidly shrinking brain o' mine is a thankless task at times, but once I start, I cannot let go.
The harmonics and sheer beauty of this period- music was to be mine.
It occupies time, late at night when hopefully, more is able to be absorbed.
Beer helps enormously.
Scarlatti's Sonata in E is the music, and I quickly found my nemesis
Trills! Like bl**dy little trolls they were, their a*ses of which needed kicking.

The pros make such a great job of 'em, and the music almost lives or dies depending on how you handle 'em. So off I starts on a Voyage of Discovery!
Discovery? Felt like I was on the Titanic on it's way down.

The worst thing was these bleedin' trills were spelt out for you, written in stone. For some reason this caused me great difficulty.

Anyway, I've made a little substitution to achieve a much better sounding result for me playing the thing, and the joy of the piece is now undiminished.

Who else has trouble with trills? As writ? Hands up, guys . . .

Last edited by peterws; 06/25/22 06:17 AM.

"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 15,244
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 15,244
I too learn from others here just by watching and listening. I suppose I'm both an aural learner and a visual learner, though both are important.

As for learning trills, I too have experimented with my own, by ear and off the cuff, version of trills, and where in my arraignment they might fit in or sound good. If it sounds good to me, I'll keep working on it in some form or fashion, and incorporate it into the tune, whether the trill is two notes that are a half step apart or a whole step, or even a third, fourth or fifth apart, or even an octave trill.

As for having trouble, I have trouble with everything until I figure out what works best for me. smile

I suppose you could figure out what fingers work best, along with the technique, and hand/wrist position.

I came across this YT video from Robert Estrin about playing trills. He does more talking than demonstrating, but he does do some demonstration toward the end of the video. Robert Estrin discussing playing piano trills...

Have fun with the trills, Peter!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,117
R
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,117
Nahre Sol on trills:

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,323
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,323
I pretty much have to use 2-3 for trills. My 68 year old hands can't adjust to using other fingers. So I adjust the fingering (and sometimes the music!) so that I can use 2-3.

Sam


Back to School at 62: How I earned a BM degree in Piano Performance/Piano Pedagogy in my retirement!
ABF Online Recitals
ABF Recital Index
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,117
R
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,117
Originally Posted by ranjit
Nahre Sol on trills:
Do check this video out. You need to get used to shifting your weight from one finger to the next and then back. Keep a relaxed wrist while doing so. I thought it was impossible to improve my trills initially but this really helped. I think a medium speed trill should certainly be possible, not so sure about fast trills.

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,363
M
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,363
I've been learning this mozart sonata. 2nd movement is super confusing how to play all the turns and trills. There even appears to be different versions of it.



I used to think 2-3 was the best fingering for trills but when I got more advanced I found that 1-3 is often better. It depends on the passage however but yes I would pick the best fingering with each passage rather than trying to restrict to only the 2-3.

I think the other thing to help is to play baroque and classical music. Once you have mastered it in one piece, they are often much easier. You however always have the impossible ones. Something like this one, Rameau, I could only do by slowing down the piece (this is one option to make it easier if you struggle - as some trills when you try to play faster it get exponentially hard).



As everything with piano - things improve with practice. Good luck!

Last edited by Moo :); 06/25/22 05:30 PM.
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 395

Gold Supporter until June  2023
Full Member
Offline

Gold Supporter until June  2023
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 395
Originally Posted by Sam S
I pretty much have to use 2-3 for trills. My 68 year old hands can't adjust to using other fingers. So I adjust the fingering (and sometimes the music!) so that I can use 2-3.

Sam

Interesting. At least at my current level of technique, the easiest for me are either 1-3 or 1-4.


Talão

Yamaha U3 and Kawai MP11SE
My piano journey (playing since July 2019)
10 weeks into Duane Shinn's 52-Week Crash Course
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 11,256
Originally Posted by Talão
Originally Posted by Sam S
I pretty much have to use 2-3 for trills. My 68 year old hands can't adjust to using other fingers. So I adjust the fingering (and sometimes the music!) so that I can use 2-3.

Sam

Interesting. At least at my current level of technique, the easiest for me are either 1-3 or 1-4.

1-3 is also my most comfortable—. But I’ve learned I am sometimes forced to use other fingers (such as the dreaded 4-5)


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,347
T
Ted Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,347
I have always found double trills a very effective exercise on the silent Virgil Practice Clavier. There are only five finger combinations for each hand and each combination has three possible striking sequences - alternating, left-right and inside-outside. Use any notes and run through the lot every day, done it for many years, only takes a few minutes. I don't use trills per se much in improvising as I don't find their sound very interesting, but I do use heaps of non-standard double notes for various musical purposes.


"We shall always love the music of the masters, but they are all dead and now it's our turn." - Llewelyn Jones, my piano teacher
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,905
peterws Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,905
And, just to throw in a spanner or two, there's the pedal . . . .kinda has a strange effect at times.
Depress it and you get this marvellous singing voice floating around. But with trills? One must tbe judicious!


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,653
T
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 2,653
Over the years I've seen different scores. Some unusual ones include the Bach "Musical Offering" BWV1079 to the emperor of Prussia. It's a set of variations for keyboard. Some pieces you see 1 clef on the left and another clef on the right inverted. If you play the piece right side up you get 1 melody and then turn the page upside down you get another melody. Some pieces you find 2 clefs (treble & bass) next to each other. If you play the notes as notated in the treble clef, you get 1 melody and as a bass clef you get another melody sort of thing. In the middle of the variations Bach put in a flute sonata based on the same theme since the emperor was a flute player.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,031
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33,031
A more contemporary piece that uses tons of trills is the very beautiful Aria by Friedrich Gulda. But this piece can become very frustrating unless one has excellent trills as I know from personal experience.


You can PM me if you want the score.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,051
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,051
Originally Posted by peterws
And, just to throw in a spanner or two, there's the pedal . . . .kinda has a strange effect at times.
Depress it and you get this marvellous singing voice floating around. But with trills? One must tbe judicious!
Don't pedal through trills in pre-Romantic works. It doesn't sound right.


Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
FOLDABLE PIANO 2022
by Skyscrapersax - 08/15/22 02:22 PM
These cool lights: DIY or equipment to buy somewhere?
by PianoStartsAt33 - 08/15/22 12:58 PM
Expression pedal for Yamaha P125
by Gary L - 08/15/22 12:54 PM
Is this too much to ask?
by Animisha - 08/15/22 10:51 AM
Is this too much to ask?
by Animisha - 08/15/22 08:31 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics214,411
Posts3,216,532
Members106,089
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5