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Me and my daughter need one compromise keyboard. I need not only piano but also synth/organ stuff.


Choosing between Yamaha MOXF8, MODX8, P-515, Roland FA-08, Kawai MP11SE, Korg Kronos 2 88.

Criteria:
Good piano sounds + more synth stuff.


What would you recommend us? I'm leaning to Kronos but not sure it's perfect for piano learning.

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Is it for home use or gigging?

If it is for home, you have the option of mp 11 for piano, and add some synth software with a laptop or computer.


If you are going on stage with it, or move it a lot, i would go with Modx8. Plenty of sounds, lightweight and acceptable action (not the best, but a reasonably good compromise)

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Originally Posted by aliaksej
Me and my daughter need one compromise keyboard. I need not only piano but also synth/organ stuff.


Choosing between Yamaha MOXF8, MODX8, P-515, Roland FA-08, Kawai MP11SE, Korg Kronos 2 88.

Criteria:
Good piano sounds + more synth stuff.


What would you recommend us? I'm leaning to Kronos but not sure it's perfect for piano learning.

Sound+synth, Kronos no question asked.

Let's break it down:

Kronos has 9 engines, the piano sounds gorgeous (compare do to MODX and Montage), and many 3rd party voices that actually sound amazing. Keybed is RH3, which is wood and unbalanced, great for synth+piano+organ.


Now MODX, well this instrument has a fossil ROM, inherited from the MOTIF series! The synth voices bundled with MODX are terrible (factor out the FM stuff that is hardware generated). They are "samples" unlike Kronos. Key action? it's the same as DGX-660. Bread and butter sounds in Kronos are way above Montage and MODX. E-pianos? Organs? Synths? They are all better in Kronos.

The only advantage that MODX has is its quick boot time, other than that, MODX is pretty much an outdated obsolete board and 80% of its voices are terrbiely old.

Last edited by Abdol; 06/28/22 01:59 PM.

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Daughter is learning piano. Starting in musical school. I'm an amateur keyboardist.

Keyboard will be used at home for piano practice and other fancy things )

Last edited by aliaksej; 06/28/22 02:24 PM.
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MP11 leads by a comfortable margin for pure piano realism, due to quality of the action. But it's quite limited for all the other synth stuff you are looking at, particularly wrt number of voices. It even marketed as "the stage piano for pianists." It can work well as a controller for these other uses, but presumably so can everything else in your list.


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Originally Posted by aliaksej
Me and my daughter need one compromise keyboard. I need not only piano but also synth/organ stuff.


Choosing between Yamaha MOXF8, MODX8, P-515, Roland FA-08, Kawai MP11SE, Korg Kronos 2 88.

Criteria:
Good piano sounds + more synth stuff.


What would you recommend us? I'm leaning to Kronos but not sure it's perfect for piano learning.


Workstations to try:
Korg Kronos or Nautilus
Kurzweil K2700
Roland FA08
Yamaha MOXXF

Workstation synths:
Roland Fantom 8
Yamaha Montage
Yamaha ModX8

Workstationish Stage Pianos:
Roland RD2000
Kawai MP7SE
Dexibel Vivo S7 or S9 pro.
Kurzweil SP7 grand
Hammond XK Pro

With organ, a lighter action might be better but not for piano. Therefore, maybe one way would be a controller board for piano eg Kawai VPC1 or Numa X Piano GT, and a waterfall controller keyboard with the Viscount organ module: the Legend exp.

VST instruments might be a good solution for the piano.


Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
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Originally Posted by aliaksej
I need not only piano but also synth/organ stuff.


Choosing between Yamaha MOXF8, MODX8, P-515, Roland FA-08, Kawai MP11SE, Korg Kronos 2 88.

Criteria:
Good piano sounds + more synth stuff.
Assuming you want everything internal, without having to connect to a computer or other device...

For piano/organ/synth, MODX8 is better than MOXF8.
For organ and synth, P515 and MP11SE are close to useless.

Others you might look at (alphabetically):

Dexibell - S9 or forthcoming S10
Kawai - MP7SE
Korg - Nautilus 88
Kurzweil - K2700, PC4, PC4SE, SP6
Nord - Stage 3 (88)
Roland - Fantom 8, Fantom-08
Yamaha - YC88

All of those have drawbar-adjustable organ, and at least certain basic synth capabilities like pitch and modulation controls, lead-style mono synth sounds with portamento, and some ability to make at least basic edits to the sounds.

Last edited by anotherscott; 06/28/22 03:21 PM. Reason: I forgot Nord!
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Have you considered two keyboards?

For the price of a Kronos you might be able to pick up a p515 that would be hammer weighted and great for piano

And synth/organ board that would not be hammer weighted.


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Originally Posted by Purdyd
Have you considered two keyboards?

For the price of a Kronos you might be able to pick up a p515 that would be hammer weighted and great for piano

And synth/organ board that would not be hammer weighted.

Problem is that we have place only for one synth. No stacks are possible due to usecase and interior limitations.

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Hello,

@aliaksej, I'd suggest taking a really close look at the Kawai MP7SE. Be aware that it needs external speakers (and an amplifier if the speakers don't have their own).

It may well be your sweet spot given the uses you need to cover.

Cheers and happy decision making,

HZ

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Originally Posted by Purdyd
Have you considered two keyboards?

For the price of a Kronos you might be able to pick up a p515 that would be hammer weighted and great for piano

And synth/organ board that would not be hammer weighted.

The Kronos is expensive, but there are lots of decent deals on used Kronos boards. I agree, organ is better on a proper waterfall keyboard.

Something like this would be ideal for you: a used deal on Facebook Marketplace:

MP11 plus organ


If the waterfall keyboard is a cheap minimal controller, then a decent midi-controller stage piano or workstation would be better for drawbar control than the P515, so that the organ controller board can be easily manipulated using sliders etc. However, if you have something that already comes with drawbars, then you don't need such a midi-controller option e.g.,options like the Nord Electro 5D 61 note which would give yoiu the waterfall keyboard and full drawbar control.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplac...p%3A0e4c235d-5ed8-4b97-8298-6a761ead28a7

However, if you're buying a Nord (something that expensive) you're perhaps looking for a cheaper used option in the piano department e.g., a used portable piano

Problem with portable pianos is that they lack decent synth options.

If you have a laptop-VST or external module, you can use a piano controller too, like the VPC1 or Numa X Piano GT plus a cheaper waterfall board. That would require some decent VST synths too.

For all in one boards that major in organ, there is only really the Hammond SK pro and the older SK1 which gives you both synth, organ and decent piano in a weighted action with waterfall keys.
[Linked Image]
Weird to have a weighted waterfall keyboard, but there you go.

The K&M stand I have for my MP7SE allows a rack attachment for an organ, so there is the expensive of buying the rack to consider too.

Last edited by Doug M.; 06/28/22 04:17 PM.

Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
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Originally Posted by aliaksej
Originally Posted by Purdyd
Have you considered two keyboards?

For the price of a Kronos you might be able to pick up a p515 that would be hammer weighted and great for piano

And synth/organ board that would not be hammer weighted.

Problem is that we have place only for one synth. No stacks are possible due to usecase and interior limitations.

Then you have a compromise between action for piano and action for synth/organ.
I think you're then looking at things like...

MP7SE
Roland RD800
Kurweil Forte
Kurzweil SP7 grand
Dexibel vivo S9 pro

All these have fantastic organs in a stage piano format with great pianos.
MP7SE and RD800 are more piano like in action. The Kurzweil SP7 is the most up-to-date stage piano available and has good organs---well, I say available, it's only just been released and not sure when it hits the shops.

The Hammond is only 73 note at tops, and wouldn't be as good for piano playing.

The workstation option is still good: Korg Kronos is a bit older, but you also have the Kurzweil K2700 which has brilliant pianos and also fab synths, organs and awesome functions. I would buy it myself but I like my Kawai action too much, and the organs are pretty good.

[Linked Image]

Other option: Yamaha YC88! Expensive, probably not quite as good piano sample wise, but the YC88's modelled tonewheel organ sounds are really excellent.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Doug M.; 06/28/22 04:25 PM.

Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
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If your daughter is going to music school and majoring in piano performance. Go get an acoustic piano.

If she needs to show only keyboard proficiency, I think any of the hammer action keyboards you mentioned would be fine.

One option is to buy something like a p515 or Roland fp-90x which have usb audio and usb midi and you can run all the fancy synth, organs, brass, as virtual instruments and the sound will come out your piano.

If your are composing you would like prefer having a digital audio workstation hooked up to your keyboard anyway.

If you just want a lot of internal sounds and flexibility, the Kronos would be hard to beat.

Note you will need powered speakers and the Kronos can take a some time to boot up.

Personally I’d get a digital piano for piano, maybe even a console model, and a 61 key synth action keyboard for the other stuff.

Good luck on your choice!


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I think if your daughter started learning all of the listed instruments will be okay.

It should be easy and hassle free to use the instrument, so I would normally lean towards something with inbuilt speakers. I really like the FP90X (has got speakers) but then you won't have the synth/organ stuff which the RD-2000 has got (without speakers).


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Yamaha DGX-670 also fits well the criteria for enjoy and rapid start.

Last edited by aliaksej; 06/29/22 05:35 AM.
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Thanks, guys! Didn't know that MP7SE has drawbar organ engine )

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Originally Posted by aliaksej
Thanks, guys! Didn't know that MP7SE has drawbar organ engine )
Yes... all the models in my post #3228805 above have drawbar organ engines. Not all the keys are equally amenable to organ playing (none are ideal, as no hammer action is). In general, the better an action is for piano, the worse it is for organ, though there is some subjectivity to that. Ideally, you can get your hands on some of them, and find an action that you find at least acceptable for both.

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Originally Posted by aliaksej
Thanks, guys! Didn't know that MP7SE has drawbar organ engine )

It does. There are 4 sliders and on the screen, you can toggle between two sections of the drawbars.

Better than that, in the MP7SE, there are two modes: Setup and Sound. The sound mode gives you the drawbars in nascent state which requires some work to calibrate them how you want and add effects etc; however, in Setup mode, there are tonnes of great drawbar setups which give you many of the great tonewheel organ setups that many bands over the years have used.

For the RRP, the MP7SE is definitely a lot of value for the money.


Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
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Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by aliaksej
Thanks, guys! Didn't know that MP7SE has drawbar organ engine )
Yes... all the models in my post #3228805 above have drawbar organ engines. Not all the keys are equally amenable to organ playing (none are ideal, as no hammer action is). In general, the better an action is for piano, the worse it is for organ, though there is some subjectivity to that. Ideally, you can get your hands on some of them, and find an action that you find at least acceptable for both.
+1

The MP7SE has a special mode to help playing organ. From Kawai's marketing blurb:
Quote
With organ mode selected, the MP7SE adjusts the strike point for the keyboard, allowing blazing runs and greasy licks to be played on its fully-weighted action as easily as the real thing.

I'm in agreement with Anotherscott. My favourite organ sounds are those of...
Nord
Kurzweil
Kawai
Roland (RD800, not RD2000)
Yamaha YC88
Hammond
Viscount (Viscount Legend Exp).
Dexibell
Crumar (Crumar Mojo)

Nord are expensive, as are Hammond.

The Yamaha YC88 is ideal if it were not for a lack of decent a piano sample due to the omission of string resonance (what Yamaha calls VRM in eg the P515) and lack of binural sampling (again present in the p515).

The new Kurzweil boards (SP7 grand, K2700) look very impressive but the Fatar actions are less piano focused. These have amazing piano samples eg the Bristol grand.

For the money, the MP7SE is a very good compromise. The synth sounds are pretty good. If you are testing an MP7SE, make sure you test the setup mode presets.

Conversations previously have highlighted that the RD2000 is missing some facets of the RD800 organ engine. Thus, another good option is a used RD800.


Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000)
Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
The MP7SE has a special mode to help playing organ.
Yes, the shallow trigger point. The Nord and Kurzweils I mentioned have that feature as well.

Originally Posted by Doug M.
The Yamaha YC88 is ideal if it were not for a lack of decent a piano sample due to the omission of string resonance (what Yamaha calls VRM in eg the P515) and lack of binural sampling (again present in the p515).
While I also wish the YC88 had the VRM, I wouldn't go so far as to say the piano sounds in it are not decent. In fact, while I know these things are subjective, I actually prefer the YC pianos to those in the mentioned Korgs, even though Korgs have the string resonances. Also worth noting is that most of the other boards mentioned don't have binaural samples either (Nord being an exception), and also that the specific benefit of binaural is strictly for headphone listening, so is not relevant to everyone.

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