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Does anyone know if Kawai is still using sliptape in their Grand Feel action? What about the Grand Feel Compact action?

I have a nine year old CA65 which has developed several sticking and clicking keys. I'm assuming that the sliptape should probably be replaced on all 88 keys at this point. Despite the many YouTube self help videos on this topic, I have no intention of trying to do this myself - and I am currently trying to find someone locally who can perform the work. If all else fails, and I have to replace the CA65, I want to make sure that I'm not going to purchase a digital that will have similar problems.

Any insights / suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.


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Originally Posted by Carey
Does anyone know if Kawai is still using sliptape in their Grand Feel action? What about the Grand Feel Compact action?

GF3 does not, I'm sure.
GFC, I don't recall that I've seen an action model of it. Tried a CA59 recently, and wasn't my favorite. Some people on this forum make a lot of noise about the escapement "notch" feeling too significant, and with most modern digital actions I tend to disagree--it's been toned down a lot since the early examples. But that CA59 I tried was definitely too much...


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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
GFC, I don't recall that I've seen an action model of it.

Similar design
[Linked Image]
In the current line of wooden actions with sliptape there are two ancient devices: VPC1 and MP11SE.

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it could be slip tape, but also lubricant and dust.

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Originally Posted by KawaFanboi
it could be slip tape, but also lubricant and dust.
That's why I don't want to try to fix the issues myself.


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Originally Posted by 9190
In the current line of wooden actions with sliptape there are two ancient devices: VPC1 and MP11SE.
Thanks. Just to clarify - does that mean there is no sliptape in the Grand Feel Compact wooden actions?


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Yep, GF3 and GFC don't have the slip tape. Although it's worth noting that per Kawai newer batches of the MP11SE have had the slip tape tweaked to prevent sticky keys too. Guess I won't be able to tell until several years down the road!

Last edited by napilopez; 07/06/22 06:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by napilopez
Yep, GF3 and GFC don't have the slip tape. Although it's worth noting that per Kawai newer batches of the MP11SE have had the slip tape tweaked to prevent sticky keys too. Guess I won't be able to tell until several years down the road!
THANKS !!


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My primary focus at this point is to try to find someone within 50 miles of me capable of doing these repairs correctly, in a reasonable amount of time, without charging a ridiculous amount. Two names given to me by Kawai are unsatisfactory. One business has horrible online reviews, and the other primarily repairs organs and has no online presence at all. This is going to be a challenge....... smile


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Originally Posted by Carey
and the other primarily repairs organs and has no online presence at all.

Someone who repairs organs may be exactly the type of person you are looking for to tweak a keybed in a digital piano. I would give him a call and discuss the problem then decide. You can always keep searching but it is becoming increasingly more and more difficult to find someone for this type of job.

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Sometimes - it may be necessary to do the job ourselves - if possible that is. I've seen workshops -- not piano --- but eg tv repair workshops and computer repair workshops where the treatment of the equipment is unsatisfactory. Normally - what you don't see might not 'hurt'. But when your equipment comes back with nicks/scratches - superficial damage etc ----- it's not nice (even if 'superficial').

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Originally Posted by Rally
Originally Posted by Carey
and the other primarily repairs organs and has no online presence at all.

Someone who repairs organs may be exactly the type of person you are looking for to tweak a keybed in a digital piano. I would give him a call and discuss the problem then decide. You can always keep searching but it is becoming increasingly more and more difficult to find someone for this type of job.

+1

I don't see why a lack of online presence should preclude someone from being able to carry-out a servicing job.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Originally Posted by Rally
Originally Posted by Carey
and the other primarily repairs organs and has no online presence at all.

Someone who repairs organs may be exactly the type of person you are looking for to tweak a keybed in a digital piano. I would give him a call and discuss the problem then decide. You can always keep searching but it is becoming increasingly more and more difficult to find someone for this type of job.
I appreciate the advice. Thanks.

Last edited by Carey; 07/06/22 11:07 PM.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Rally
Someone who repairs organs may be exactly the type of person you are looking for to tweak a keybed in a digital piano. I would give him a call and discuss the problem then decide. You can always keep searching but it is becoming increasingly more and more difficult to find someone for this type of job.
+1
I don't see why a lack of online presence should preclude someone from being able to carry-out a servicing job. Kind regards,James

I don't disagree, James. Whenever possible, however, I like to research any potential service providers in advance just to make sure they are legitimate and have a good track record.

Last edited by Carey; 07/06/22 11:08 PM.

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Originally Posted by SouthPark
Sometimes - it may be necessary to do the job ourselves - if possible that is. I've seen workshops -- not piano --- but eg tv repair workshops and computer repair workshops where the treatment of the equipment is unsatisfactory. Normally - what you don't see might not 'hurt'. But when your equipment comes back with nicks/scratches - superficial damage etc ----- it's not nice (even if 'superficial').

They're also not very careful tightening screws, screws are essentially self tapping, if they re-screw without carefully feeling the tension and turning it so it goes in smooth, the screw can cut another thread channel, loosening the hole too much. i diy everything because no one loves my es520 more than i do.

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Originally Posted by KawaFanboi
They're also not very careful tightening screws, screws are essentially self tapping, if they re-screw without carefully feeling the tension and turning it so it goes in smooth, the screw can cut another thread channel, loosening the hole too much. i diy everything because no one loves my es520 more than i do.

+1000. Absolutely ----- the requisite and all-important reverse rotation until the 'click' (or light bump) occurs, followed by careful driving rotation is what all those people need to follow. There are always those reckless ones out there (including the ones that do the over-tightening - and busts up the hole).

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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
the escapement "notch" feeling too significant, and with most modern digital actions I tend to disagree--it's been toned down a lot since the early examples. But that CA59 I tried was definitely too much...

I recently test-played a number of actions including Grand Feel Compact in the CA49 and CA59. The too-much of the escapement notch was the first thing I noticed. To my surprise I also found this action to be bouncy on key return, which is not for me.

Out of my budget, unfortunately, but I really did like playing the Grand Feel III action in the CA79 and CA99.

No slip tape in the key to hammer joints in both of these actions, fortunately.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

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Hello,

@Carey, I'm with Rally and Kawai James on that the organ repair person may well be an option.

Also, see if you can find acoustic piano technicians. They should easily be able to understand what you ask them to do and carry it out, in particular if they are experienced, calm and have been showed one or two of the YouTube videos on the matter. They'll be able to do cleaning and subtle(!) lubrication as well, if needed, and will have the tools to loosen up felt bushings etc., all of which may nicely rejuvenate your CA65's action.

Cheers and a happy restoration,

HZ

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Originally Posted by SouthPark
Originally Posted by KawaFanboi
They're also not very careful tightening screws, screws are essentially self tapping, if they re-screw without carefully feeling the tension and turning it so it goes in smooth, the screw can cut another thread channel, loosening the hole too much. i diy everything because no one loves my es520 more than i do.

+1000. Absolutely ----- the requisite and all-important reverse rotation until the 'click' (or light bump) occurs, followed by careful driving rotation is what all those people need to follow. There are always those reckless ones out there (including the ones that do the over-tightening - and busts up the hole).

kawai's factory assembly themselves arn't very adept @ screws. my own unit came overtightened, holes were already striped by the smaller shallow screws, then my friend got a 520 unit where all the screws were loose and tightened in the wrong order so his casing was bulged.. i suspect they've got a novice crew with a preset air-driver. different screws need different tension. they should put it on with the air driver but then tension manually by hand.

Last edited by KawaFanboi; 07/07/22 08:04 AM.
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Originally Posted by HZPiano
Hello,

@Carey, I'm with Rally and Kawai James on that the organ repair person may well be an option.

Also, see if you can find acoustic piano technicians. They should easily be able to understand what you ask them to do and carry it out, in particular if they are experienced, calm and have been showed one or two of the YouTube videos on the matter. They'll be able to do cleaning and subtle(!) lubrication as well, if needed, and will have the tools to loosen up felt bushings etc., all of which may nicely rejuvenate your CA65's action.

Cheers and a happy restoration,

HZ
Good suggestion regarding acoustic piano techs. That occurred to me as well. Thanks !!!


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