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#57530 10/02/07 11:16 PM
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I understand that I won't be flying on any airline that uses Airbuses if I can avoid it... :p


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#57531 10/02/07 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by Axtremus:
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Rank piano Amateur wrote:

Second, and much more importantly, a couple of the posts above seem to indicate that [b]Mason's actions are from China. Unless my eyes deceived me on my recent factory tour of the Mason facility more seriously than my increasing age would otherwise indicate, Mason's actions are built in Massachusetts, entirely by hand, by people who clearly know what they are doing and masters of their craft.
What these folks really meant to say is: "Mason's action parts are from China."

Some posters can sometimes be quite loose with their terminology. So the next time you read "Mason's action is from China," just mentally substitute that clause with "Mason's action parts are from China," and discuss from that vantage point. OK? smile

(p.s. If the above seems confusing to you, also read THIS DISCUSSION and see if it helps. smile ] [/b]
I still think this is a misstatement. I would say "SOME M&H action parts are made in China".


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#57532 10/03/07 03:02 AM
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Think of it this way: the Germans to this day can't launch an astronaut into space. China did.

The complexity of making piano action is child's play compared to building a space program.

As long as MH does its quality control, action from China can be as good as Renner.


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#57533 10/03/07 05:08 AM
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OK... the former USSR has also launched astronauts into space. Name a USSR-made piano (or even just action part) that's widely recognize to be better than German-made piano (or action part). laugh

#57534 10/03/07 05:19 AM
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I'm getting confused now.
Do these countries send their pianos into outer space?

If so, why?

And more importantly, do the European pianos still emphasize the fundamental when played in an atmosphere with no air?

#57535 10/03/07 12:53 PM
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Wasn't the Fandrich upright action designed for zero gravity? Reset springs or something?

Does it include Chinese parts?


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#57536 10/03/07 01:06 PM
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the fandrich action is now built by renner in germany. last i heard.


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#57537 10/03/07 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by Grane:
Well, there is the reality and there is the perception. Right now with all the toy recalls, the toothpaste recall and other environmental issues, China does not have a stellar reputation.
Add to this that the Chinese government EXECUTED the Chinese government official who "allowed" the exports of ill repute. heck of a country! Let's support them as much as we can.


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#57538 10/03/07 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by kenny:
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Originally posted by Norbert:
[b]Close to my own home town of Erlangen, somebody in Bavaria with the name Siemens, Audi and BMW was just recently whispering some unintellible stuff into my ears.....

Here is another example of you speaking in some secret code.

I'm not psychic.
Care to explain?

Why write stuff that everyone doesn't understand Norbert? [/b]
Sorry I am late to this, but I think I know what Norbert is saying. Here's an example: my brother has a factory in China (I won't say where exactly, to protect the innocent!) that makes parts for BMW and Mercedes Benz. Their quality requirements are so high that if even one part in a shipment is out of spec, the whole shipment gets sent back.

There are indeed manufacturers in China who have extraordinary precision manufacturing capability. All the parts in an action are machined, then finished by hand. There are no mysterious or arcane incantations that one needs to know to do this. If a Chinese manufacturer can make an action from the same carefully selected lumber used by Renner, to the same or better precision than Renner, then I don't see why they can't last as long as a Renner action, or perform as well or better.

Yes there are dodgy manufacturers in China, as there are in any country you care to name. But don't tar the whole lot with the same brush. smile

If M&H was demoted because of the use of Chinese parts in the action then I think the demotion was done for the wrong reason.

#57539 10/03/07 01:49 PM
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So M&H by using Chinese parts now makes pianos of equal or higher quality than previously, makes them cheaper to build, thereby benefiting both the manufacturer and dealers, and also continues to increase list prices. Sounds like a great business plan to me. smile

Rich


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#57540 10/03/07 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by Rich D.:
So M&H by using Chinese parts now makes pianos of equal or higher quality than previously, makes them cheaper to build, thereby benefiting both the manufacturer and dealers, and also continues to increase list prices. Sounds like a great business plan to me. smile

Rich
Bingo!

Think of how much margin Apple makes on its products (made in Taiwan, China, Thailand, Singapore...)?

#57541 10/03/07 02:02 PM
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Does anyone know if any other parts in M&H pianos besides some of the action parts are manufactured in China?

#57542 10/03/07 02:07 PM
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Plates


G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
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#57543 10/03/07 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by piqu�:
the fandrich action is now built by renner in germany. last i heard.
But the Renner employees have been known to bring in Chinese takeout food on occasion.
smile

#57544 10/03/07 04:26 PM
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ok, mdsdurango has pressed my button in referring to the repressive nature of the chinese government.

should we be so enthusiastic and so deeply enmeshed in business with a country that has so little regard for free speech and freedom of expression?

are we so eager to stock our walmarts, and obtain quality pianos at a better price point, that we are willing to overlook who we are dealing with?

i'm as guilty as the next person when it comes to wanting products that i can afford. but i have some obligation here. the wages in china are going up, and that is a good thing. but it seems to me that the allure of the chinese business model is obscuring the problems with their government model. I recall awhile back one of our internet search engine companies was willing to limit what chinese citizens could search for in exchange for the opportunity to do business there.

the productivity rate there has been incredible, but at what costs to their citizens. the ny times recently had extensive reporting on such costs as terrible pollution and the depletion of groundwater.

forgive my rant, but it seems to me these things should be talked about more. maybe not here.

#57545 10/03/07 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by gutenberg:
ok, mdsdurango has pressed my button in referring to the repressive nature of the chinese government.

should we be so enthusiastic and so deeply enmeshed in business with a country that has so little regard for free speech and freedom of expression?

are we so eager to stock our walmarts...
Remember whem Wal-Mart used to tout their pride with the "Made in the USA" promotions? I liked that. I want that back.


I. Bruton
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#57546 10/03/07 05:16 PM
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So it's okay to support Japan, Korea, Indonesia, etc... but not China? Did you guys beat up the new kid in school as well or just until he proved he could fight back. China will win this fight and are no worse than when the Japansese were doing the same thing many years ago and now we all seem to love them.

#57547 10/03/07 05:45 PM
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Remember whem Wal-Mart used to tout their pride with the "Made in the USA" promotions? I liked that. I want that back.
If you want exclusively 'made in the good old USA', go to a Goodwill Industries or Salvation Army store.


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#57548 10/03/07 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by I. Bruton:
Remember whem Wal-Mart used to tout their pride with the "Made in the USA" promotions? I liked that. I want that back.
I. Bruton, maybe you can start getting "that back" by giving away your two Yamaha pianos...

The reality is that nobody today can honestly not buy something made overseas even if they wanted to. It would be too expensive, too inconvenient, and too frustrating.

#57549 10/03/07 06:16 PM
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Here is another example of you speaking in some secret code.

I'm not psychic.
Care to explain?

Why write stuff that
Because some people can read between the lines and 'get it'.

Kenny,you need to come with me to famous Erlangen beerfest 'Kerwa' to lighten up. thumb

What will you be doing if you get a *hint* there by the girls, whispering "unintelligable stuff into your ears" - then don't get it?

Insider tip: they wanted to buy a beer for you..

Norbert wink


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