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As mentioned (briefly) on another thread - I'll be embarking on a journey through various piano shops (and factories) in and around Munich this year to shop for a new grand piano.

It is going to go in a room about 3.70 m (about 12 ft 4") wide and 6.50 m (21 ft 8") long, 2.55 m (8 1/2 ft) high, with a large, double door into the adjacent (considerably larger) room. One side is fully glass panelled, but that will get curtains which should soften the sound, wooden floor, concrete ceiling, book shelves on at least one wall.

So really, I am shopping in the 1.80-2.10 m (6-7ft) regime.
Budget is more a secondary issue, so my aim is to first find what I think is the best piano, then make the sums - and if necessary wait a few months more until we can afford it.

We are quite fortunate that Munich has two (or three together with the Steinway House) big piano shops which cover most of the market (Bechstein, Blüthner, Bösendorfer, Fazioli, Grotrian Steinweg, Kawai, Sauter, Schimmel, Steinway (Hamburg), Yamaha), plus a number of fully restored older instruments. And then there is the Steingräber factory a dy trip away.

I have had a little play around on a few instruments (about 6 so far), after which I will probably rule out the Kawai (apart from Shigeru Kawai which I haven't tried) and Yamaha (except for the S-Series, which I also didn't try). I quite liked the Schimmel and more so the Sauter, but the Bösendorfer (214 cm) I played was so far the nicest -- but that was more or less without a systematic approach.

My plan is to try to stick to a systematic approach and draw up a little "mandatory repertoire" to use on all instruments identically and note down impressions, plus on the instruments I like more a "free repertoire" for further exploration.
Obviously, this procedure will take some time, but I am determined to play as many top notch instruments as I can and enjoy myself. And as this will happen after work most of the time, I am realistically looking at about a year's effort.

Have I missed out any makes? I am somewhat inclined to try to support the "local economy", which shouldn't be that difficult in all pianos are manufactured in Germany, except Kawai and Yamaha and Bösendorfer (but then, Vienna is only 240 miles away and therefore much closer than Hamburg or Braunschweig), but that isn't an absolute. Will need to find dealers selling Ibach and Seiler as well, probably. If I stumble over them in a shop, Petrof and Estonia won't be forgotten, either.

Does anyone know if Mason & Hamlin are available in Germany for at least a test play for comparison?

Any comments are welcome - any suggestions with the idea in mind that I am really looking for an instrument for the next 50 years (touch wood), and therefore am willing to invest money in a hand crafted piece of art (or at least one that comes close to it) and not really for a mass produced instrument.

Markus

Two German pianos you haven't included on the list are August Foerster and Wilhelm Steinberg. I've never played a Steinberg, and the Foerster didn't do anything for me, but for the sake of completeness they are potential candidates.

My major recommendation is that you spend some time listening to individual notes in addition to playing a given set of pieces on each piano. Slowly playing chromatically is a useful exercise, as is playing set chords and just listening to the sound of the attack and the manner of the decay. You can learn a lot about the basic features of the instrument and its voicing that way. Playing some simple baroque ornamentation is a great way to get the feel of the action (and the way it repeats). Simple scales help you get a sense of the key weighting up and down the scale.

Good luck and enjoy the search process!

Cheers,

David F


P.S. where are the dealerships in Munich? I was there over the summer, but I didn't bump into any dealerships.

I would also recommend trying Steingraeber 205 as well. Impressive piano. And if trying the Sauter, be sure to try the 220 Omega, in addition to the 185 Delta.

Thanks for the messages - I had forgotten about the Steinberg and Förster - will need to find someone who sells them, don't appear to be that common.

As for Sauter: I have tried the Alpha - they didn't have a larger one in the shop then, but I would definitely want to try the larger ones. If they are for their size what the Alpha is for its size, it will be worth it.

The Steingräber 205 is quite high on my list, but not many who stock it (I was told that because the production numbers are so low an instrument might sit around in the shop for a year until it is sold and by then, they will have made improvements to parts of the design), so waiting for time to go to Bayreuth (as a reply to a request of information I got a friendly letter and invitation to the factory hand-signed by Udo Schmidt-Steingräber which I thought had a nice touch to it).
On their website and in the catalogue they have a version which is on the outside polished ebony black and on the note stand and the inside to the keyboard lid in Massakar veneer - absolutely beautiful.

Dealerships in Munich:
Piano Fischer in Thierschstr. off Isartorplatz -- they are also in Stuttgart and Herr Fischer is very friendly and takes his time to talk. They deal in Bechstein, Fazioli, Grotrian-Steinweg and Yamaha and also have lots of restored old instruments

Klavier Hirsch at Sendlinger Tor (actually on Lindwurmstr.) -- Bösendorfer, Blüthner, Schimmel, Kawai (incl. Shigeru Kawai)

Steinway-Haus München is on Landsberger Str. between Laim and Pasing.

Will keep you posted.

I can't think of a better way to spend a year myself than shopping for a high-end grand. Please do keep us posted throughout your adventure.

My best advice would be to pass on the advice given to me by whippen boy, which is to create a template for each piano you try where you can record details about the piano brand and model, serial number, where you tried it, finish, miscellaneous notes about features (e.g., slow-close fallboard, what kind of bench comes with it), and a place to write down your impressions about the tone and action. If you are really going to take your time to do your shopping, you need some sort of system to organize your thoughts.

Are you constrained to Germany or would you be able to travel elsewhere in Europe to compare pianos?

mjs:
I am realistically looking at about a year's effort.... but the Bösendorfer (214 cm) I played was so far the nicest....

So what are you going to do for the rest of the year?

PS. Monica, I'd have thought being in Germany whilst on a search for a high quality piano is about as unconstrained as one could ever be!

-Michael B.

Thank you Monica. You know, I should have taken out a patent on that!

While I think you have most of the great pianos covered you may still want to check out the Feurich pianos. I understand that they are now again being produced (someone correct me if I'm wrong)and if they are as good as those made previously, they rank up there with the best of the best IMHO.

Rich

Thanks for all those tips, very much appreciated.

Rich: Feurich have a website (www.feurich.com) and it appears that their production is in Mittelfranken. Yet another manufacturer where I will try to track down a dealer nearby.

Monicy: I am planning to "restrict" myself to looking in Germany - if I happen to be in the area of a dealer who stocks instruments I can't try out here (that would probably be Richard Dain in Kent for the Stuart grands, and if I can see a M&H somewhere) then I will. And if I happen to be near Venice, I think I shall visit Fazioli.

Only thing is that for purposes of servicing, I'd like to have a dealer/technician not too far away who is familiar with the type of instrument.

Judging by the weather forecast for the weekend (much too warm for skiing) I might have some time Saturday for some test playing.

Markus

Update on Feurich: on my request for a list of dealers, I basically got an invitation to come to the factory in Gunzenhausen (even on weekends) where Mr. Feurich would be happy to show me around. Dealers in Germany don't stock their grands, so their place is the only one to test-play them.
Obviously also a very small volume manufacturer, fully family owned.

Only about 80 miles from here, so perfectly doable.

mjs, thanks for the update on Feurich. We don't hear about them often, so it's good that you passed along the info from Feurich.

Well - weather is bad and forecast is also very bad, so will go test playing a few grands tomorrow at Piano Hirsch in Munich - they stock Blüthner, Bösendorfer, Shigeru Kawai, Schimmel, and Sauter.

I have selected my "test-repertoire" -- apart from scales, chords, I will use the following:

J.S. Bach: Well Tempererd Clavier I, Prelude and Fugue c-minor
L. v. Beethoven: Sonatas op. 2(1) 1st movement
op. 27(2), op. 28 1st movement, op. 110 1st movement -- or rather: parts thereof
Chopin - Nocturnes op. 32(1) and 37(1)

and then whatever else comes to mind (and I decide to carry along with me), probably a Mozart sonata as well

That should cover a lot of musical styles, sound qualities, levels of technical difficulty, necessity of control etc.

Markus

Sounds like you've got it well-planned out, mjs. I'll be looking forward to hearing a detailed report.

MJS,
On Sauter, do rest assured that the larger grands are even more impressive than the Alpha, which is an impressive piano for its size. The Delta has quite a different tonal character from the Alpha, i.e. it is not simply a scaled up Alpha. Anyway, if you want to know what a Delta sounds like, here's mine:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/15686.html

Well - I spent about 1 1/2 hours in the piano shop today. When I arrived, they said that I was lucky, there was no one in there, and I could play around as I wished.

Grands sampled: Blüthner 190, Bösendorfer 185 and 200

The Blüthner (with aliquot) struck me as rather nice, clear, lean sound (although I somehow don´t think it was prepped to its full potential), very light action, almost plays itself. Does have a bit of a bell like tone, especially in the treble. Playing Chopin on it, I think I heard the piano sing back to me - definitely good. No noticable change from bass to treble bridge.

Then I switched over to the 200cm Bösendorfer. I would go so far to say that that was possibly the nicest grand I have ever played. Action a bit heavier than on the Blüthner, but not impairing playing at all. Extremely warm tone, very "German" in the sense of the quality you get from the string section of the Vienna Philharmonic or the Staatskapelle Berlin or Dresden. At the same time a wonderfully clear descant, again like little bells. What struck me most, however, was the sustain on the notes - legato came almost on its own (for example in the Beethoven D-major sonata) without the need to use the forte pedal at all (which on the Blüthner was borderline). Playing the instrument almost brought tears to my eyes.

After that, the 185 Bösendorfer had little chance. But, to be fair, it is a very nice instrument with a more "modern", a leaner sound, somewhere inbetween the other two. Certainly a sound I could get to like (within 20 minutes), but not up to the 200cm instrument (which is an older design - the 185 is a very modern Bösendorfer design). Action felt a little heavier yet again, but not a real problem. Considering that the 200 is only (if the use of such a term in a range of 60000€ list price is applicable at all) about 5% more expensive than the 185, the 200 wins this by a lot.

The Blüther probably overall comes in between the two, being more different to the 200cm, it never aspires to sound like it and doesn´t quite.

After that, my wife came to "rescue" me ...

Very briefly played on a small Shigeru Kawai -- not that impressed. Sounded more like a good upright to me, very "academic" sound, don´t really like the springiness of the Kawai action, although in the Shigeru the action is orders of magnitudes nicer than on the standard ones.

Unfortunately no Sauter in the shop (they are waiting for a new Alpha to arrive), and if I want to try out the Delta or even Omega, I´ll probably have to go to the factory to Spaichingen anyway.

Right at the end, I did try a 225 Bösendorfer (which is getting too expensive) - again a more modern design from Bösendorfer, basses clearer than in the 185 and also 200 versions (well - length does that, not really a surprise), but in my opinion still lacking the warmth of the 200. To be fair, I played it for 3 minutes, lid down, in a different room, so hard to compare.

Now I need to find somewhere where I can play the 200 and 214 Bösendorfer next to each other. Well, Vienna is always worth a trip ...

So far, I think my rating would be

Bösendorfer 200 (and 214)
Blüthner 190
Bösendorfer 185
Sauter Alpha

Schimmel/Shigeru Kawai are out of the game, I think (unlikely I´ll find a 200cm or thereabouts Shigeru to play anywhere)

To be continued ...

Another note -- I had a phonecall from Rönisch in Leipzig after asking where I could try out one of their instruments - it turns out that none in Munich, but the next on in Fürth near Nürnberg. When I asked whether they would have a full selection in the factory, I was told that not at the moment because they had sold all the stock they had to Australia - they´ll have to make a few more.

Markus,

Your piano shopping adventure brings back memories of my time shopping for pianos in Germany.

München has a some good pianos and some good dealers. But if you intend to do some traveling I would recommend you visit two dealers in Stuttgart.

Piano Fischer has another big store in Stuttgart, although I cannot say which one has the bigger selection of pianos. Both stores had a lot of them though. What I liked about the Stuttgart store was I was able to do a side-by-side comparison of Faziolis and Bechsteins. They kept them in the same room.

When you are done at Fischer's you can visit Piano Centrum Matthaes which is located only a few minutes away. Matthaes is the Stuttgart Steinway dealer. Their technicians do a very good job preparing their pianos. They probably will have at least one Shigeru Kawai available for you to try too.

The Bechstein Centrum in Tübingen might be worth a visit if you are seriously considering a Bechstein piano. Tübingen is an interesting old university town and the Bechstein Centrum will have a good selection of pianos to choose from.


Piano Fischer
stuttgart@piano-fischer.de
Theodor-Heuss-Straße 8
70174 Stuttgart
Tel.: 07 11.16 34 80
http://www.piano-fischer.de/

Stuttgart Piano Centrum Matthaes GmbH
- Steinway Galerie Stuttgart
Silberburgstr. 143
70176 Stuttgart (West)
Tel. 0711-61553760
http://www.matthaes-piano.de/


Bechstein Centrum Tübingen
Konrad - Adenauer - Straße 9
72072 Tübingen
gegenüber Regierungspräsidium
Telefon: 07071.428 92
Telefax: 07071.448 83
http://www.bechstein-centrum.de/

Good luck with your piano shopping. It will be interesting to see which piano you select. You have so many good makes to choose from.

JP

Hi JPM,

thanks for the tip -- I believe Piano Fischer in Munich are about as big as in Stuttgart (which is now their headquarter). The main difference is probably the selection of refurbished instruments.

Fischer in Munich has the Faziolis in one room, and all the other pianos in another -- therefore, should I be in the situation that I am deciding between Fazioli and Bechstein, the idea to try them out side by side in Stuttgart is definitely worthwile. Less than 2 hours on the train from Munich to Stuttgart (and relatives there as well).

Tübingen might indeed be worth a trip (I don´t think my wife has ever been - I have a few times). Interesting that such a fairly small town should have a Bechstein-Centrum.

As it looks, we are finally getting some winter here, so I´ll be spending most of my free time on narrow planks of high-tech composite materials (cross country skis) preparing for two large citizen´s races in Finland and Sweden in 5 weeks ... so probably not that much time left for sampling instruments in the next few weeks.

Markus

mjs--Please keep writing of your shopping trips. Having just finished the book "The Piano Shop on the Left Bank," reading about shopping for pianos in Europe is becoming quite an enjoyable hobby. I'm living vicariously through your search!

Nancy

Just out of curiousity -- did any of you while shopping for a new piano have the feeling that your old one just didn't quite sound as nice as it used to do?

I put it down to playing a number (not very big yet, but more to come) extremely nice pianos while concentrating on tonal qualities - perhaps I am subconciously listening more carefully now and certain things I was just used to and didn't hear suddenly stick out (need to have my piano voiced and regulated -- it has never had it done in its 25+ years). It cannot have suddenly changed within a week.

My wife, on the other hand, claims that my piano is distraught/depressed/whatever because it probably believes I don't love it anymore -- why else would I be looking for a new one?

Markus

You bet!!! But my old piano was an entry-level 42" upright.

Looking forward to the next installment of your chronicles.