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Depends on which one. The 6'1" SK-3 is VERY roughly $45k.

One can simulate the grand piano sound by removing the front panel !!!
Sounds so real, so economical.

But the touch of a normal upright still cannot.... Good enough lah.

Robert Piano sells the SK-2 at $42k.. not sure if can get how much discount

Woa...40 over grand. Looks like I have to start queueing at my office Toto outlet across the street.

And that's still cheaper than the Steinway upright!

let me see.... if i save $400 per month.. i can buy the SK-2 in 10 years time. Add my year end bonus, maybe 9 years time..... hehehe (at the same time buy some toto quick picks)

Hi, I just found PW while searching for reviews on buying pianos. Glad to have found this!

I'm looking for a new piano (budget below 5K) or used piano (budget below 4K) for my 6yo son. Been shopping around for 2 wks, and still can't make up my mind, coz with the small budget, it's quite hard to find. My preference is Yamaha or Kawai (quite inclined to kawai), though may consider other recommendations.

Been to many piano shops. Renner, asia piano, Mun Kai, Pianoman's shop, Piano Passion, Emmanuel & Sons, Cristori Bedok, Robert piano & Yamaha.

Found the following used ones..
1. Used U1 (more than 20 yo, original)
2. Kawai BS2A (16 yo)
3. Kawai BL-20 (below20 yo)
4. Kawai CX-21DP (below 10 yo)
5. Used U1 (30-40 yo, reconditioned)
6. Yamaha LU100 (abt 10 yo) - buy & upgrade later
7. Kawai BL-10 (below 20 yo)

Tried new pianos..
1. Yamaha JU101, M112T, JX116
2. Kawai K3 (tempted, but above budget)
3. Hailun
4. Wendl & Lung
5. Atlas
6. Nottingham

I welcome comments and reviews, and more recommendations.

Hi thummy, welcome aboard! I know what you mean - when it comes to buying pianos, it's never straightforward, especially considering these musical intruments are not exactly cheap.

I'm not sure about the other makes but I am more familiar with Yamaha and Kawai, and you are better off getting a used Yamaha or Kawai which can sound pretty good despite the age for that price. New Kawais are expensive and even low end Kawai like K3 is about $7K+.

But I do know that there will be a Yamaha fair on Apr 7,8 where you can get pretty good discounts. For example, you can get a M112T for $5,600 (plus extra tuning and free gifts).

Having said that, if the piano is also for yourself or other adults besides your kid, you may want to up your budget and get a better one that will lasts longer and make your purchase a more satisfying one.

thummy, go for Kawai !!! i somehow prefer it to my U1 - but that depends on the piano you sample...
Go for the tone, then test if the action is ok.
That's right, these 2 brands are quite reliable and trouble free. Tuning are stable too.
Enjoy your search....

Thanks Clam and Snoopycar for your replies.

I have heard about the upcoming Yamaha fair because authorized dealers are already offering these discounts and freebies. But yet, I could only afford the lower end ones.

Wanted to buy the M112T at %5.6k at one point, but later heard from 1 dealer that it is actually not fully made in Japan, it's made in Indonesia. So, held back.

Frankly, my heart goes with the kawais, because the sound is really so "mellow" compared to Yamaha, which is higher pitch. (I learnt the word mellow after shopping around for 2 weeks).

Snoopycar, I don't know how to really listen to the tone and check the action. I only can pretend to peep inside to look at the hammerheads and the felts, but don't really know how to tell the difference. For the tone, only can rely on the demonstrator to show off their skills, and to me, most kawais sound good. Only difference I can tell is the taller the piano, the better the sound. So that's how I judge. :p

Got 1 kawai really captured my hubby's heart is the BS2A, which is a special edition. Looks very new, nice inside, and the sound is good. Only prob is the age of 16 yrs, and around 4k. Good buy? What's really so special about the "special edition"?

I myself is a dummy when it comes to music. Nobody is the house knows how to play the piano. Only hope is my younger one, now 2 yo, other than my 6 yo. Initially, I was very shy when I started shopping for piano alone, as I had to ask the most basic and dumb questions, even about what the 3 pedals were for.

Today, my son's piano teacher commented that he needs more practice, but my son replied that "mummy is still looking for one, must wait". :p Looks like I gotta make up my mind by this week. Stressed!

Of the 3 kawai models, BS2A, BL-10 and CX-21, which is better?

16 year old for a Japanese imported piano is a good mature age - if it's well taken care of. Meaning, the strings and soundboard are typically stabilize. Are the wood colour of the hammers and felt in bright shade?

Aiya... i'm not expert too. Just play some appregio and broken chords up and down the key range. Play some bach, morzart, fur elise, some easy richard clayderman lor. Heard if the music is pleasing, heart melting or harsh. Of course the piano has to be well tuned to begin with.

BS-2A, not sure what special edition comes with. Does anybody know? Special key tops?? But anyway, i think a standard height 121-131 is a good balance between price and sound. I got a feeling special edition is perhaps exterior finishings like lines or trimmings - even pedals.

If you need someone to confirm for you before you purchase, other than the saleman himself, you can ask anyone of us to go to the shop with you. We can give you a un-bias evaluation. Just pretend and say we are your friend lor.... You can me as i'm a piano craze, not expert, but helpful guy.

Kawai is also my preferred choice. It never crossed my mind until I tried it out and hear it for myself. I like the touch and the sound. It's pretty unanimous that most people will find Yamaha's sound a little bright. If you go for used piano that age, make sure you hit every key to make there are no sticky keys or that certain keys are "harder" than the rest. The feel of each key should be pretty even. Suggest you take up on snoopycar's offer and get him along. I'm sure a nice latte is enough.

what is a nice latte? coffee?
Swensen treat will do lah

According to the Robert piano salesman, the special edition is really nothing special except that in that particular year, when Kawai wants to celebrate some event, it produced a certain no of pieces (eg. 10k) of that model and labelled them special edition.

Snoopycar, I wished I could play "twinkle twinkle little star", let alone some Richard Clayderman or Mozart! haha.... If I had known just a little bit more, I wouldn't have been so stressed. Thanks for your offer to help evaluating. That can save me 70 bucks! Can buy latte and swensen for you!

Does anybody know roughly what is the price gap between buying a piano direct from owner and one from dealer? Other than movers and tuning, is there anything else to take care of when buying direct? Is it good to get a dealer to touch up on the piano after buying, like opening up the inside to clean?

Clam, thanks for your tip! Is it that the keys get sticky if the previous owner doesn't turn on the heater?

Price gap does varies.. The more you shop around, the more you'll get familiar with the market price. You can also compare with yahoo action price. Some are realistic, some are over priced. Some seller do indeed sell at a reasonable price. But shopping around cost time.

Shop have overheads and human cost. So it's expected to factor into the selling price. Bottom line is to fine a piano that suits the needs of the musician or student. It's gonna live with the family for many years ahead. Shouldn't have to rush into making a decision.


It could be cost effective if you get a 2nd hand medium range piano from private seller.

http://sg.auctions.yahoo.com/sg/i:KAWAI%20K25%20Black%20Polished%20Professional%20Upright%20Piano:231938700

There's a K25 seller at the sg.auction. I think $3000 is a realistic price for this intermediate range piano.

http://sg.auctions.yahoo.com/sg/i:ROSEWOOD%20COLOUR%20PEARL%20RIVER%20UPRIGHT%20PIANO:212645117

Pearl River can be econimical. But usually it's harsh sound turn people off. Surely technician can reshape and voice the tone to a acceptable sound.

If the heater is not turn on for a long time:
Due to moisture, and humidity, wood change shape, if the wood wasn't season in the klin properly.

On some piano, the wood that holds the bush at the pivoting hammer or whippen expands and squeeze the pin tight. This make the friction increase, sometime "stuck keys", technically the action is stuck. Sometimes the hammer get stuck and dosent return to rest. Usually the keys of old pianos are loose with side free play, so the expansion of the bush still can't cause a "stuck key".

snoopycar has given a pretty technical explanation on stuck keys. Look also for pretty constant "gaps" between keys. Sometimes, the previous owner (probably kid) pushed the keys sideways. The heater will also prevent moisture from accumulating on the strings causing it to tarnish or even rust.

You assume alot of the risk if you buy from another owner. The risk can be mitigated somewhat if you know the owner well. Also you have to arrange your own mover so you have to factor the price in. Bring someone(like snoopycar) along to have a second opinion and more objective assessment.

Buying from a dealer (especially those that are piano technicians) will be less of a hassle. And typically you get a wide variety to choose from and compare. Some even have buy back, upgrade, comes with certain number of free tunings, delivery inclusive, etc. Many of them have a reputation to maintain and so are more careful in what they recommend as compared to an owner anxious to get rid of the piano and don't give a hoot to reputation.

This is just my personal opinion and I'm not saying that buying direct from owners will necessary be a bad experience. Just be aware of the pros and cons.

Here are two books that you may have seen mentioned in other posts in PW:

"The Piano Book", 4ed, by Larry Fine, plus the 2007 supplement. I've seen both book and supplement at Books Kinokuniya in Ngee Ann City.

"Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding", by Arthur A. Reblitz.

I bought both from Amazon.com. You can get more details there. There is more information in those books that you might want (or need), but better to have it accessible than not. Actually its fascinating reading for us piano-heads heheh.

Snoopycar, thanks for informing about the auction. The Kawai would be nice to own. Still like the lovely sound of kawais, compared to others.

Just want to share one recent experience. I went for one viewing after seeing one online posting. The contact person was a nice guy, but not his family members. They actually stopped my son (the future owner) from touching the piano, saying that it could make it go out of tune. And before the daughter played a short piece, she told her aunt to keep my son away so as not to disturb her. Think this family is not quite ready to sell it. Luckily I did not do anything drastic except the basic visual checks, otherwise they might have thrown me out.

Buying from dealer does have the risk taken care of, but only gotta pay a premium for the price. However, sometimes, those pianos in shops looked so nice that I wonder if it is the truth. More than 15 yo still look so brand new.

Digitus, thanks for your recommendation.

Do we really need to tune every 6 months, or can we drag a bit to 9 - 12 months if the usual is low? Pardon my ignorance.

thummy, yes second-hand pianos can look and sound that good. But it does take time to find the right one. I didn't have the time so I dug deep into my pocket to get a new piano.

As for tuning frequency, how long you can go between tunings is determined by your own ears. Regardless of how well you control the environment your piano sits in, the tuning *will* drift. New pianos will need to be tuned more frequently, at least 3 times in the first year, or whenever you can't take it anymore. The piano will hold a tuning longer as the instrument gets older (and the strings stretch less over time). Other factors that contribute to loss of tuning are significant changes in temperature and/or humidity of the piano's environment.

Frankly, after having paid so much money for an acoustic instrument, I would gladly pay the money for a good piano tech to keep my piano playing and sounding the best possible.

Yes, pianos of 15yo from japan are quite good condition. It's like sitting in a showroom humidity and air is very ideal there- some parts of japan(unless its place in a industry park..)

But a 15yo piano in singapore non climate control home, it's different thing....