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Joined: Aug 2004
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I'm about to start this waltz and I'm curious as to what level you would consider it to be.
It's the journey not the destination..
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I would consider it a late intermediate/early advanced. A good first chopin waltz, and one of my favorites . Lots of expressive possibilites with this one!
private piano/voice teacher FT
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In my opinion the Chopin waltzes (and his other salon-type pieces, like nocturnes and preludes) should generally be avoided by amateurs. The reason is these pieces are much more difficult than they appear to be. They require the most subtle right hand rubato in order to sound impressive. This is something for a fully-formed, expert player to do, not your average amateur. And yet, in a paradoxical twist, they provide little in the way of technical development; so an amateur player knocks himself out working them up and gets nothing substantial out of it. Look at the left hand part: down up up, down up up. The l.h. gets no real technical workout in this piece.
These salon-type pieces were written as fluff, for the entertainment of dilettantes by expert players. They are for an expert and yet at the same time they are not good vehicles for technical development. You need to be an expert to play them impressively and yet you won't become an expert by playing them.
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If expression, rubato and voicing are not part of technique - and if they aren't enhanced by playing pieces such as this Waltz - then what are they and why wouldn't they be improved by learning to play this Waltz well?
Furthermore, where is it dictated that every piece studied and played has to contribute to one's "technical development"?
Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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Gyro, I respectfully disagree. Bruce makes a wonderful point about expression and rubato as being a part of the mastery of the instrument, not a side issue. Also, what about the Grand Waltz Brilliante? This isn't easy technically by any means, and while not the hardest of pieces, there are certainly challenges presented with articulations, and changes that should be done with repetitions to kepe it interesting.
**edited to add: I missed your comment, gyro about the nocturnes and preludes as well. If these are not techincally demanding, I do not know what is. How can you say something like the Prelude No. 24 or Nocturne Op. 71 No. 1 is not technically demanding? There certainly are easier and harder pieces in these works, but they are probably among the best written pieces for solo piano in existence!
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Imagine saying of Chopin genius (A flat waltz 69/1) "These salon-type pieces were written as fluff" ... what a load of insensitive garbage.
Having just romped through this easy-going gem ... in typical Chopin waltz format with the nocturne-like RH single-note outline and held LH bass note sandwiching the inner rhythmic dual chords ... the Lento tempo opens this waltz to enjoyment by the widest of keyboard enthusiasts... also being highly repetitive.
Great choice of music ... in keeping with the philosophy "It's the journey not the destination".
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While we are at it, can you comment on Chopin 69-2 (Waltz in B minor)? Is it more or less difficult than the 69-1? Is it a better composition than 69-1?
I heard Rubinstein's recording of the 69-2 and really liked it!
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Originally posted by Gyro: In my opinion the Chopin waltzes (and his other salon-type pieces, like nocturnes and preludes) should generally be avoided by amateurs. The reason is these pieces are much more difficult than they appear to be. They require the most subtle right hand rubato in order to sound impressive. This is something for a fully-formed, expert player to do, not your average amateur. And yet, in a paradoxical twist, they provide little in the way of technical development; so an amateur player knocks himself out working them up and gets nothing substantial out of it. Look at the left hand part: down up up, down up up. The l.h. gets no real technical workout in this piece.
These salon-type pieces were written as fluff, for the entertainment of dilettantes by expert players. They are for an expert and yet at the same time they are not good vehicles for technical development. You need to be an expert to play them impressively and yet you won't become an expert by playing them. Oh so negative....Thanks Gyro but I wasn't looking for advice on whether or not I should tackle this. I'm learning this on my teacher's recommendation and trust his judgement for my technical development. I was just curious as to the level. I think, with his help I'll be able to handle it and while I may not ever play it 'expertly,' I'm confident that it will help me grow as a pianist.
It's the journey not the destination..
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Originally posted by MA: While we are at it, can you comment on Chopin 69-2 (Waltz in B minor)? Is it more or less difficult than the 69-1? Is it a better composition than 69-1?
I heard Rubinstein's recording of the 69-2 and really liked it! Well I did the 69/2 about 2 years ago and while I certainly didn't have it mastered (and have since forgotten most of it ) , I think it is easier than 69/1.
It's the journey not the destination..
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Chopin, Waltz in Ab major, Op.69, no. 1 (L'adieu") The Piano Syllabus here classes it as a Grade 8 piece.
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Too many of you chaps think of the next musical challenge in terms of "difficulty" instead of going for it ... and relying on the masterpiece tug at your heart strings.
A quick scan of the first page of the Chopin waltz 60/1 might throw a newcomer into a bit of a tizz because of the 4-flat key signature, the dreaded (3) triplet sign or a typical Chopin flourish as in measure 27 ... but at closer scrutiny ...
1. the key signature was selected because the note patterns were found to ease the fingering 2. the triplet sign is just a momentary speeding up of the tempo 3. the measure 27 flourish (13 notes) is no more than a 3-note preparation into a 10 note chromatic ascent.
Don't be scared chaps ... go for it.
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Well, I agree with btb. (I can't believe I said that! )
Du holde Kunst...
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btb brings up a good point (I'm with you there, currawong ): It is easy for us to obsess about how difficult a piece is that we are tackling. I go so far as to look it up in my "Guide to the Pianist's Repertoire" by Hinson, who usually assigns a nice rating of difficulty at the end of the description of each piece! Why do we do this? I certainly do find out all I can about a piece and in the process develop my own interpretation, so it's not all about how difficult a piece I can play, or where I'm at compared with so-and-so. I play because I love it, and I know I'm improving with each piece I learn. But there is a part of me that wants to know where I stand in the grand scheme of things. Strange isn't it?
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Originally posted by I played it better at home: I'm curious as to what level you would consider it to be. Okay, the question she asked was, what level would you consider it to be, so I just check the syllabus to see what level they suggested, and simply answered her question. Stop the lovefest and just answer the question! Boy, now that I've taken up smoking, I'm sure drinking isn't far behind! I have all of you to blame!
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