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Posted By: Jameezy Yamaha C5 price - 05/14/22 08:13 PM
I am currently between a couple pianos. I initially wanted a new piano, my budget is about $30-35K. After much debate and shopping around, I ultimately am leaning toward a used, but bigger piano. Here are the three I have it down to:

Yamaha C5 (1999, 6'7"), $28K

Kawai GX2 (new, 5'11"): $35K

Wilhelm Schimmel (new, 5'11"): $32K


Any thoughts on the price of the Yamaha? All of these prices include 6% sales tax, delivery, home tuning, bench. It has the best feel I think of all three, and while it is 23 years old, I think I could still get several decades out of it if maintained.

The Yamaha price seemed a little high to me, but still considerably less than a new CX5 (this is after some haggling already). I don't know of any quality pianos of that size I could get new for my budget, and not much else in the used market in my area currently that has caught my attention (most in that price range are of higher quality admittedly, but much older pianos). Thanks!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/14/22 08:20 PM
Which do you like best in terms of tone?
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/14/22 08:44 PM
The Yamaha, then the W. Schimmel a close second, then Kawai. Some of it may be due to the recital room it is currently housed in (smaller and wood floors compared to main showrooms), but the added 9” add a lot of fullness, especially to the bass. Touch is a toss up between W Schimmel and Yamaha I think. Both are different, but each great in its own right.
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/14/22 08:53 PM
So the real choice is probably between the Yamaha (23y old, but bigger), and the W. Schimmel (smaller but new, a little less well known line of pianos). The Kawai is last place due to highest cost and I probably like it the least.
Posted By: Sidokar Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/14/22 09:02 PM
The Yamaha seems on the high side in terms of price. I would have seen more toward the 22K range. It all depends what the condition is of course and local situation.
Posted By: j&j Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/14/22 09:15 PM
If the Yamaha is in fairly pristine condition and still sounds good, I’d negotiate the price down a bit. Maybe have your tech check it out. William Schimmels are very nice but that model is 8” shorter, which makes a big difference in the sound department.

Best Wishes on your decision.
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/14/22 10:03 PM
Personally I would get the Yamaha. But make sure you like it, play for a while.

Didn’t someone else post something like this?

I think like:

- Yamaha C5

- Some Steinway

- Some Kawai?

Just checked!
It’s you again!! Found a new C5 listing huh!

Glad to see you making more progress
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/14/22 10:44 PM
Hah! You found me out! I figured a new post may generate new discussion/get new views and opinions.

Since then, I cut the Steinway off the list (35y old, and too small). The W. Schimmel made an appearance, with serious considering.

It’s the same Yamaha, but I talked the salesman down a little. Getting my tech to check it out next week.

I keep going back and forth between the W. Schimmel and Yamaha in terms of touch and tone. The W. Schimmel is simply a smaller piano, but new. The action on the Yamaha is great, borders on TOO light, but feels really nice overall.

The Kawai is currently still in the running (mostly because I am an over-thinker). I want to like it more haha. I really loved it my first time sitting at it, but she on sequent visits Ive found it difficult to play expressively at very low volumes, Morris than the Yamaha or W. Schimmel. It has a great reputation, and I’m sure I’d be happy with it either way, but splitting hairs at this point given how big financially and long term commitment this is.
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/14/22 10:59 PM
Really? Guessing a mistake, in the other post it said 1998 and this one 1999.

I hope everything goes well 😁😆😃😃😀😁
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/14/22 11:38 PM
Yes, was a mistake in original post. It’s 1999.

Hard part about the W. Schimmel is that there is not a lot of info online about it (aside from one review from piano buyer and one from merriam pianos), but what is out there all seems positive. WAY more public information and collective experience to draw from for the Yamaha, so I feel the W. Schimmel is slightly more of a gamble. Plus of course the compromise in size.

Thanks for all your responses thus far smile
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 12:23 AM
Yes, that’s one of the things when I’m looking at other less known brands.

True, the C5 will have many many reviews!

Is W. Schimmel the Poland ones?
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 01:08 AM
Yes, purportedly German renner action and Bavarian spruce soundboard, cabinet assembled in Poland at what used to be the Vogel factory. I believe some parts sourced from China? There was some conflicting information deep into the blogosphere. Consumer grade piano made by Schimmel, below their Konzert and Classic series, both of which are fully made at their German factory with all German parts, but are much more expensive. All Schimmel pianos (including the W. Schimmel) are hand made pianos.
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 02:14 AM
Originally Posted by Jameezy
All Schimmel pianos (including the W. Schimmel) are hand made pianos.

This statement is pointless. And their German factory uses more automation than many piano factories in that country.
Posted By: Withindale Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 07:20 AM
Do not buy any piano you like unless it has a full blogosphere pedigree?
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 11:17 AM
I guess it more that for the money going into the piano, I want to be sure it is sourced from quality materials and parts. I am new to acoustic pianos, and it has been a bit overwhelming to understand all of the intricacies of what goes into making a piano, with often conflicting advice thrown around regarding what is and is not important. I understand at the end of the day, go with what sounds and feels good to me, but it’s nice to have some objectivity where you can to evaluate different respectively.
Posted By: Withindale Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 11:52 AM
The most important thing is whether you like the piano, how it plays and sounds, its touch and tone. Of course the quality of materials and build is important. Most often quality an performance go together. Schimmel is one of the best brands, they are not going to make rubbish pianos that will damage their reputation.

If you have not already done so, why not take some time out from making decisions? Instead go play as many pianos as you can. Other Yamahas, other Schimmels, other brands. Then you will have a better idea of what you like and what questions to ask.
Posted By: ShiroKuro Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 01:52 PM
Jameezy, I own a Yamaha C2 from 2000 (and my first acoustic was a Yamaha upright), I've played a few different C5s and know people who own them (and one who owns a C7 IIRC. All of these are great instruments (my C2 included), so I have only good things to say about Yamaha pianos.

Re the Schimmel, I only have experience with one that I used to play quite regularly. I liked it a lot and when I decided to buy a grand, I thought I would include Schimmel in my selection but unfortunately, there were none in driving distance to me, so it didn't work out. So I can't say too much about them.

But if you like the C5, and it checks out in a tech inspection, I say go for it.

Unless you absolutely love the Schimmel, if you can fit a larger piano, why go smaller?

BTW Withendale's suggestion to play a lot of pianos is a good one, but I had the impression you've been doing that already?

So, what is your goal? Are you ready to buy a piano and move on, or are you up for another few months of searching? There's nothing wrong with either of these options, but if you can articulate for yourself where you're at in the process, it will be helpful.

One last question, since you're wondering if the C5 is priced high, where are you located? Are there lots of options for piano purchasing?
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 02:17 PM
I’m in Detroit area. There are 4 piano galleries locally, I’ve been to all at least twice now, so I have a decent idea of what their used inventory is. The Yamaha C5 stood out due to its size, price, and relative age compared to a lot of the other used ones I’ve come across (many are very old, too expensive, or too small). There are galleries in Lansing and Ann Arbor, about 1.5hr drive from me. I haven’t been to these galleries but I’ve at least looked at their posted used inventory online, and still the Yamaha seems to be the best value for size and age. I’ve also scoured online resources like Craigslist and pianomart.

I’ve been looking for about 2-3 months. I’m honestly exhausted by the search, me and my wife would love it to be over! Haha
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Unless you absolutely love the Schimmel, if you can fit a larger piano, why go smaller?
So his wife doesn’t complain about a giant piano in the living room 😉 (JK)

What’s funny is I can fit a concert grand in basically the same spot as my 5’5” (but not angled, flat against wall)

Room is pretty big, TALL slanted ceiling, open space concept so even more space for sound (lol)

I am by no means rich it’s just a weird living room, kitchen, formal living room (sort of) setup.
Posted By: ShiroKuro Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 03:00 PM
Ok, so you've really played a lot, so that's good. If you feel these three pianos are your best options, I would say move forward with the comparison and pick one. Yes, one is bigger than the other two, and for many that would be enough of a deciding factor. But maybe for you, now try to really zero in on which one you like to play better, which one sounds better, which one feels better...

BTW the Kawai hasn't been discussed much, have you ruled it out?

Once you zero in a little more, then have that piano inspected by an independent tech (i.e., someone you hire/pay for, not someone paid by the dealer). Esp. for used instruments, the tech can tell you if there are any red flags etc.
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 03:05 PM
I didn’t have a tech on my piano 😮
You should though, I got lucky LOL.

I am 99% sure the KK is out!
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 03:18 PM
I am having the Yamaha inspected tomorrow by an independent tech! Even if I don't go for it in the end, worth the $150 just to make the decision that much more even.

I think the Kawai is in third currently, as it is the most expensive, and I like playing the W. Schimmel at least equally (both different in a few respects), if not a little more.

Biggest thing for me I suppose is going for the 23y used but bigger piano, versus a brand new one that is slightly smaller. Both seem to be high quality instruments at similar price points, that could fit my needs. Space is not an issue (though any bigger than the C5 might be a little too loud for the room).

I guess in the end, it's all about personal preference between the two. The Yamaha seemed a little harder to control, the action felt a little flimsy at times, but definitely had a bigger bass sound.

It's funny, I think I prefer the W. Schimmel touch, and the Yamaha sound and look (not crazy about the orange harp in the Schimmels). If only there was a way to combine them!

I play mostly Jazz, at an intermediate level. Not a professional, and not doing a lot of complex passage work with the L hand (mostly walking bass lines and open chords), so the lack of big bass would not necessarily be a deal-breaker, and the W. Schimmel bass is certainly nice for its size. There seems to be no substitute for larger pianos however when it comes to the bottom register, no matter how good a scale design a smaller piano is.

Appreciate all the answers thus far. If anyone has any other suggestions on make/models worth considering in the 6'-ish range at $25-$35K price range I'm all ears. I have heard good things about Estonia 190, but haven't tried one yet, though it might be a little more than stated price limit.
Posted By: Withindale Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 03:24 PM
Others who know the market can advise on the C5 price. Apart from that (maybe a big that) and dealers margin, the C5 should depreciate less rapidly. Are you planning for a tech report on the C5?
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 03:30 PM
Yes, getting it inspected this week. I thought about resale value as well, thinking that if I have a more robust budget in the future and more specialized musical needs I could upgrade, and it may be easier to sell the Yamaha and recover relatively more from it since it has already fallen past the steepest part of the depreciation curve.
Posted By: Sgisela Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 03:31 PM
Jameezy, I know this is a lot of money to spend, and it is very reasonable to have doubts and to want to do one’s homework. It is a big decision.

It seems like you are leaning toward the C5. If you do decide on the C5, make sure it’s for the right reasons. Have it checked out by an independent technician, and convince yourself on repeat playing that you do prefer the touch/tone to the other options. To me, the fact that it is 23 years old means that unless you get an independent tech inspection on it, buying it could be more of a ‘gamble’ than the new W Schimmel (which you are concerned about because there is relatively little information about it compared with Yamaha C series pianos). I also think the C5 seems to be priced a bit high for a 23 year old instrument and I would think you could get the price down a bit more.

With regard to the W Schimmel, despite the paucity of testimonials on this site and some others, or YouTube reviews, or what have you, I really would not be overly concerned about the build quality or materials. I find this quote from Larry Fine to be very salient here:

‘During the last half of the 20th century, a great many pianos, especially low-end instruments manufactured in the U.S. and in developing countries, had significant defects that made separating good instruments from bad relatively easy. That is no longer the case. Due to globalization and the computerization of manufacturing, virtually all pianos now sold in the West are competently made and without major defects, and the differences between them are increasingly subtle and subjective. While it’s still clear that high-end pianos are better than entry-level ones, comparisons of instruments that are closer in price are less conclusive, and much more subject to the whims of personal preference, how well the pianos have been prepared for sale, room acoustics, and so forth.’

It’s easy to get bogged down in the list of specs, but such information is only as good as one’s ability to interpret how these factors will affect your satisfaction with the instrument, and my opinion is that the spec lists provide almost no information about how satisfied you will be with it. My feelings about testimonials and reviews are similar. How does one evaluate the relevance of a review or testimonial of a random person? I think the PianoBuyer reviews are excellent and provide valuable information, but even those reviews are best read with an understanding of the background of the writer, the intended audience, and what those factors mean for you and your purchasing decision.

It seems like you’ve done a good job looking at the pianos in your area and narrowing things down. It also seems like you’re ready to have the search finish and bring home your piano. Play the instruments a little more, get an independent tech to evaluate the C5, think about the various factors important to you (touch, tone, cost, etc), and then have confidence that your decision is the best one for you.
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 03:53 PM
WHY does nobody read?

Jameezy literally said that it’s getting inspected tomorrow!
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 04:09 PM
all good! I’ve been a little redundant myself LOL
Posted By: PianoWorksATL Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 04:11 PM
I apologize if this offends anyone, but it's simply an observation made here again that I observe ad nauseam. The Wilhelm Schimmel is a traditionally made piano made in a factory that Schimmel has owned and used to build pianos for 19+ years. First Vogel, then re-branded as Wilhelm Schimmel, the scale designs also come from Schimmel design (SP182) that dates back to the mid-1990's. This isn't a new brand and it isn't logical that a piano maker has to make it to 2nd generation status before they are "safe". When you look at other industries, including the piano industry, its often when a brand becomes established that they start either resting on their laurels or exploiting the brand name for riskier profitable measures. Boeing did this, Baldwin's old management did this prior to the bankruptcy back in ~2000, the most famous piano brand did this in the past, off and on (though the mere mention of the brand would derail this thread), as have quite a few of the established brands that have a lengthy history.

It makes more sense to me when someone doubts composite parts, modern materials, new manufacturing methods - yet those are often greeted warmly by the general public (it's more often industry insiders that resist change).

If the W.Schimmel remains a top choice for you, you would not be out of line to request more information about the sourcing of parts to see if that was worthy of discussion, but logically, truthfully, in any other world of normalcy, a New piano of good reputation is less of a risk than a 23 year old, used piano also of good reputation, yes?

That minor rant aside, supply chain issues, labor shortages and human behaviors have driven prices of name brand pianos way up in most markets around the US. A year ago, that would have been a very high price in my market for a 1999 C5 in excellent condition. Today, it hardly surprises me. More people have become impatient and that drives up prices, especially among the most recognizable brands.

That does affect the value quotient of your decision, however, a good C5 is a good instrument. If you like it best and it checks out, it still could be the best decision for you.
Posted By: Sgisela Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by probably blue
WHY does nobody read?

Jameezy literally said that it’s getting inspected tomorrow!

If this was directed at me, I do read. But I started writing my post before the OP posted that he was having the piano inspected. While I saw after posting that he was going to have the piano inspected, I didn’t feel the need to go back and revise in light of this new information. Just glad that he will be doing so!
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 04:31 PM
Some very thoughtful and helpful responses here, thank you all.

I think the decision between the two pianos is an apples and oranges situation, where comparing a 5’10” piano to a 6’7” piano will never be totally comparable.

I think I at least have some reassurance that they are both great pianos, and I think either will serve me well, based on my experiences with them in the showrooms and plenty of comments here and throughout the web.

That said, I think I am leaning towards the W. Schimmel, as I think I prioritize touch and having a new piano highly, and the tone, while not quite as resonant as the Yamaha in the bass, is still excellent. I can always upgrade to a larger piano in the future if I feel over time that I want more than the 5’10” can provide, but going from my current digital piano to an acoustic of this size will still feel like an enormous step up.

I am planning three more trips this week to the galleries, one at each to sit down with the respective pianos one last time (have only been at the W. Schimmel once so far, so we’ll see if the revisit holds up), and a third where I bring my checkbook smile

Now I just have to rip off the band-aid and decide if I want an apple or an orange!
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by Sgisela
Originally Posted by probably blue
WHY does nobody read?

Jameezy literally said that it’s getting inspected tomorrow!

If this was directed at me, I do read. But I started writing my post before the OP posted that he was having the piano inspected. While I saw after posting that he was going to have the piano inspected, I didn’t feel the need to go back and revise in light of this new information. Just glad that he will be doing so!
Sorry, that happens to me sometimes
Posted By: ShiroKuro Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 05:04 PM
Jameezy, I'm glad you're getting the C5 inspected. I don't know if the tech would be able to look at the Schimmel, but you could certainly ask for their opinion, esp re the touch since you like the Schimmel better in that regard.

I really appreciated reading Sam's comments. I also was thinking that the price for the C5 sounded appropriate in the context of 2022 weird pricing.

On issues related to touch:
Re the touch of the Yamaha.... I think touch is super important, and I don't think I would sacrifice touch for length.

Having said that, when I bought my C2 (2000, so almost the same age as your C5), I bought from a private seller who hadn't really maintained it. I had it inspected, and the tech said he would recommend regulation and voicing. I used that in my bargaining on the price.

When I bought the C2, I already liked the touch, so I bought it without reservations in that regard. But after it had been in my house for about a month, I had the regulation and voicing done. Well, when my tech got done with it.... OH MY! It was amazing, the improvement. As I said, I liked the touch when I bought it, but I absolutely LOVE the touch on it now.

I can't remember how much I paid for that work, maybe $600? So you might ask the tech what s/he would recommend in terms of improving the touch, and get an estimate for the work. Oh, well, and you also want to ask the dealer what, if any, work they have done on the C5 since they got it (beyond tuning).

On issues related to ease of later reselling:
All things being equal, I would expect a used Yamaha to be easier to resell than a Schimmel. But all things are not equal (they never are)... I think the Yamaha C3 (or G3) might the easiest piano to resell, but I would guess that there might be potentially fewer buyers for a C5 because of its length. The Schimmel is maybe an easier length to sell.... So I might almost think that these two details kind of cancel each other out in terms of which would be easiest to resell if you wanted to later.

I could be wrong though, and my guesses about the ease of selling a larger used piano could be off. After all, a used Yamaha grand is probably always going to sell well just because of the Yamaha name and reputation.

Anyway, I will look forward to hearing what you learn from the tech's inspection!

smile
Posted By: TBell Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 06:23 PM
I would lean toward the Schimmel. It is new and not 23 years old like the C5.

I wouldn't worry too much about the plate color - it is not that noticeable unless you are looking into the piano.
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/15/22 07:47 PM
Tomorrow you will know!
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/16/22 08:38 PM
Took another lap today. I think Yamah is the winner, but by a hair.

The W. Schimmel sounds amazing in the mid-range and treble, better than the Yamaha. It definitely has more character, more unique sound, great singing quality and sustain.

Yamaha wins in low-end by a lot though, and touch is better w Yamaha. Touch is good w the W. Schimmel, but the Yamaha plays like butter. I have more control w the Yamaha. I attribute the improved touch and low end primarily to longer size (8” longer), but obviously a lot of differences in design. The overall quality of the Yamaha is a little “vanilla” compared to the W. Schimmel, but I guess that will make it a little more versatile too.

The Yamaha dealer is actually the same as the Kawai, and offered to bring both into my house for 24hrs free of charge to hear both in my living room, as long as I commit to buying one of them. I thought this was a pretty solid sales tactic, even though I already put the Kawai at the bottom I might take him up on it in case the Yamaha sounds too big once it’s in my living room.

Tech had to reschedule. I think in the end a 23 year old Yamaha C5 in excellent condition isnt too old, and I’ll hopefully get a good 15-20 years before it needs much work on top of regular maintenance. There seems to be some compromise with either option unfortunately, but there is no piano for $30K that will not have a compromise of some sort.

Will make my decision by the end of the week hopefully!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/16/22 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Jameezy
There seems to be some compromise with either option unfortunately, but there is no piano for $30K that will not have a compromise of some sort.
I think that's the correct way of looking at buying a piano, and I might even go higher than $30K. You seem to have carefully noticed the pros and cons of each piano.
Posted By: Rickster Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/16/22 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Jameezy
Took another lap today. I think Yamah is the winner, but by a hair.

The W. Schimmel sounds amazing in the mid-range and treble, better than the Yamaha. It definitely has more character, more unique sound, great singing quality and sustain.

Yamaha wins in low-end by a lot though, and touch is better w Yamaha. Touch is good w the W. Schimmel, but the Yamaha plays like butter. I have more control w the Yamaha. I attribute the improved touch and low end primarily to longer size (8” longer), but obviously a lot of differences in design. The overall quality of the Yamaha is a little “vanilla” compared to the W. Schimmel, but I guess that will make it a little more versatile too.

The Yamaha dealer is actually the same as the Kawai, and offered to bring both into my house for 24hrs free of charge to hear both in my living room, as long as I commit to buying one of them. I thought this was a pretty solid sales tactic, even though I already put the Kawai at the bottom I might take him up on it in case the Yamaha sounds too big once it’s in my living room.

Tech had to reschedule. I think in the end a 23 year old Yamaha C5 in excellent condition isnt too old, and I’ll hopefully get a good 15-20 years before it needs much work on top of regular maintenance. There seems to be some compromise with either option unfortunately, but there is no piano for $30K that will not have a compromise of some sort.

Will make my decision by the end of the week hopefully!

Congratulations on your progress in making a choice between the Yamaha C5 and the W. Schimmel!

I may be biased, but I'm a huge fan of Yamaha acoustic pianos. The reason being, is I have an older Yamaha C7 (ca 1978) and I absolutely love it, despite some normal wear. It sounds good, plays good, and I'm impressed with it every time I play it! Heck, I'm impressed every time I look at it, because it makes me want to play it!

It could use some regulation and voicing, but it still sounds good and plays good. A little bright in the upper treble, but not "glass breaking" bright. It is mellower in the mid section, and the low bass is fantastic!

Don't know much about the W. Schimmel, but I'll bet the Yamaha C5 is a gem of a piano!

All the best!

Rick
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/16/22 09:11 PM
Agree to the Yamaha, and say— instead of moving the two pianos into your house for a trial, knock $1000 off the price of the Yamaha.

Just be sure you like the treble, and the sustain in the treble, well enough. Sometimes people get blown out of the water by big pianos with big bass, but the rest of the piano is not able to keep up with it.
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/16/22 10:07 PM
Appreciate the words of encouragement!

Like I mentioned, the W. Schimmel definitely has a more beautiful mid and treble, but the Yamaha is still good, and overall I think I will be more unsatisfied in the long run with the lack of bass in the W. Schimmel than the more bland middle and treble on the Yamaha, especially since the Yamaha action is so so so nice.

Call me crazy, but for my purposes as a hobbyist playing in my living room, touch trumps tone (so long as tone is good enough, which the Yamaha is). Yamaha wins touch, and has the low end, so going with my gut.

In the end, pros and cons to both pianos, and can’t have it ALL with $30K budget haha. There is a reason $100K pianos exist LOL.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/16/22 10:16 PM
Originally Posted by Jameezy
Call me crazy, but for my purposes as a hobbyist playing in my living room, touch trumps tone (so long as tone is good enough, which the Yamaha is). Yamaha wins touch, and has the low end, so going with my gut.

I'm definitely crazy too, in that case (and folks here have called me out on it smile )

But who cares? In the end, piano is about what brings you joy. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with enjoying the feel the action, versus (subjective) minuscule differences in tone.
Posted By: ShiroKuro Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/16/22 10:57 PM
Jameezy, I think your decision making sounds good. I agree with TD too, skip the "two pianos" thing and ask for a price reduction.

Re touch, I am on the same page as you, I want the piano to feel right under my fingers. When I was piano shopping, I cross a lot off the list because they didn't.

BTW, you're not skipping the tech inspect are you, just rescheduling right?
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/16/22 11:20 PM
Right, just rescheduling for later this week. I doubt he’ll find anything major, but still for peace of mind.

Good tip on the two piano thing, could use as a bargaining chip. I have met w the owner a couple times now, he knows I’m interested in the W. Schimmel from the guy down the street, so we are dancing the dance currently LOL.
Posted By: ShiroKuro Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/16/22 11:29 PM
Keep dancing, maybe he'll drop the price a little more! smile
Posted By: Sgisela Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 12:50 AM
Agree with ShiroKuro and terminaldegree. From everything I’ve read, you seem quite certain that the new Kawai is not the way you want to go. Personally, the only situation where I’d be on board with the two piano delivery would be if I were truly on the fence about the pianos. Otherwise, it sounds like a bunch of hassle and time to have the two pianos delivered and test them out at home before sending one back. If you can use the delivery offer to negotiate the price down, that would be the best outcome. Otherwise, think of other things that you might actually want. An artist bench rather than a standard bench? Installation of a dampp chaser? Extra service visits? Trying to use the two piano delivery to leverage the price would be preferable, but if the dealer won’t budge on the price, I’d try to get something I actually wanted, rather than the hassle of the two piano delivery situation.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 01:17 AM
It was very generous of the dealer to offer to deliver both pianos to your home. If you don't want that done, I'm not at all sure it's a good idea to ask for something to replace that. To me that looks like you're trying to squeeze every last penny out of the dealer, and it's possible the dealer would be quite annoyed with that approach.
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 01:38 AM
Yeah, I felt it was a kind offer, but impractical. I wait to see how else he can bring the price down, maybe I will simply ask to keep that as an option in the event I get the Yamaha in the house and feel it’s too big, but no need to preemptively plan for that. I think it will be fine though, piano is 6’7”, room is 23’ x 13’, wood floors. If anything getting them both in there might just confuse me even more and give me second thoughts hahaha. I had never heard of a dealer offering that before though.
Posted By: dogperson Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 01:44 AM
Jameazy
I have a 7 ft piano in a room of about the same size and play on full-stick without being overwhelmed.

I, too, was concerned so I bought a large thick rug pad and rug that covers the entire piano size. That’s all I needed. I do have some upholstered furniture.
Posted By: AJB Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 08:13 AM
There is no issue with piano size. My studio (holds only the piano really) is a bit smaller than that and I have a very powerful piano in there. Larger pianos with long key lengths tend to be very controllable.

Good sales tactic from the dealer. He has no additional cost really from bringing two pianos instead of one and he gets a guaranteed sale of one of them. He know you will buy the C5 in the end.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by AJB
There is no issue with piano size. My studio (holds only the piano really) is a bit smaller than that and I have a very powerful piano in there. Larger pianos with long key lengths tend to be very controllable.
I think things are a bit more complicated than that. There are numerous posts on PW with people saying their piano is too loud for their room. There is an article in PB about choosing a piano's size to fit a room's size. So I would conclude that at least some of the time a piano can be too loud for a room. OTOH I don't think it will be a problem in this particular case.
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 10:50 AM
Originally Posted by AJB
There is no issue with piano size. My studio (holds only the piano really) is a bit smaller than that and I have a very powerful piano in there. Larger pianos with long key lengths tend to be very controllable.
I think things are a bit more complicated than that. There are numerous posts on PW with people saying their piano is too loud for their room. There is an article in PB about choosing a piano's size to fit a room's size. So I would conclude that at least some of the time a piano can be too loud for a room. OTOH I don't think it will be a problem in this particular case especially if the piano room opens up to other rooms which is often the case.
Posted By: AJB Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 01:10 PM
yes, but I was not generalising, I was talking specifically about this room in this thread to this OP. He has given the room size and my studio is similar. A C5 is not a super loud piano.

I have in the past had a Hamburg D, concert Fazioli (in a small recording studio), and B. Imperial in similar sized rooms or studios and never had an issue. Typically where issues arise is rooms with a lot of very reflective surfaces and / or low headroom. Large, good quality, pianos are often very controllable.

That said, I probably wouldn't go much above 7ft domestically. No need.
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 01:25 PM
Great advice, sounds like it should be fine then. Yes, there are two openings into the room at either end, ceilings average height. Thanks!
Posted By: Sidokar Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by AJB
There is no issue with piano size. My studio (holds only the piano really) is a bit smaller than that and I have a very powerful piano in there. Larger pianos with long key lengths tend to be very controllable.
I think things are a bit more complicated than that. There are numerous posts on PW with people saying their piano is too loud for their room. There is an article in PB about choosing a piano's size to fit a room's size. So I would conclude that at least some of the time a piano can be too loud for a room. OTOH I don't think it will be a problem in this particular case.


I have played a couple of time on grands that were in small dealer's rooms and it was ok for a short period of time, but I wouldn't be able to bear it for long practice sessions. Also bass needs minimum space to develop properly otherwise you just get a mushy sound due to resonances created and standing waves. The theory says that you need at last half wave length to avoid the resonances. For a piano that goes down to 27 htz that would be about 19 feet. Of course many pieces dont reach that low, so roughly for the octave down to 50 hertz that would be about 12 feet long. If one damps the room or the piano too much, you just get a muffled sound without any life.
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 01:45 PM
Do you mean 12’ x 12’ room in your 50Hz example? How do you know what Hz your specific piano goes to? Easy to calculate based on piano length?
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by Jameezy
Great advice, sounds like it should be fine then. Yes, there are two openings into the room at either end, ceilings average height. Thanks!
With two openings the effective size of the space for the piano is much larger than the room size so chances are great that things will be fine. My M&H 7' BB is in a 12'x18' living room but the room opens up to the dining area/kitchen and hallway/foyer so the effective space is much larger. I play with the lid down and fly lid folded back.
Posted By: Sidokar Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by Jameezy
Do you mean 12’ x 12’ room in your 50Hz example? How do you know what Hz your specific piano goes to? Easy to calculate based on piano length?


All pianos with 88 keys go down to 27.5 hertz, but most pieces (but some do of course) dont use the lowest octave or even 1,5 octaves. So practically we are more around 55 to 60 hertz.

yes of course there is a formula, the length depends on the speed of sound which varies based on temperature and atmospheric pressure. In first approx to get the wave length you divide the speed of sound which is 1130 feet/s by the frequency.
Posted By: Sidokar Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by Sidokar
Originally Posted by Jameezy
Do you mean 12’ x 12’ room in your 50Hz example? How do you know what Hz your specific piano goes to? Easy to calculate based on piano length?


All pianos with 88 keys go down to 27.5 hertz, but most pieces (but some do of course) dont use the lowest octave or even 1,5 octaves. So practically we are more around 55 to 60 hertz.

yes of course there is a formula, the length depends on the speed of sound which varies based on temperature and atmospheric pressure. In first approx to get the wave length you divide the speed of sound which is 1130 feet/s by the frequency.

And human ear can barely perceive 27 hertz waves anyway in relative db level at similar emission level, so you hear mostly the upper harmonics.

Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by Jameezy
I think it will be fine though, piano is 6’7”, room is 23’ x 13’, wood floors.

Originally Posted by dogperson
I have a 7 ft piano in a room of about the same size and play on full-stick without being overwhelmed.

I, too, was concerned so I bought a large thick rug pad and rug that covers the entire piano size. That’s all I needed. I do have some upholstered furniture.

Same here. I was mostly worried about volume before I got my piano, but it turned out fine. 7ft grand, in a ~19x20' room (varying dimensions but open floorplan), 8ft ceilings, hardwood floors. The piano itself isn't a loud one. It CAN be too loud if other people are in the same room, the lid is open, and I'm really trying to play f/ff. But I never do that, and so it works well, even with people sitting on the couch right next to the open lid. When sitting at the bench with the music desk up, it rarely ever feels even mildly loud to the pianist (I can't imagine ever needing ear plugs while playing, for instance).

My friends who just got a Kawai GX2 in a slightly smaller space have mentioned out loud their piano is, but I think those comments come from not really knowing what to expect from a grand in the first place (compared to the digital slab piano they were using before).

Long story story, I think you'll be fine, Jameezy!
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 03:35 PM
Great, I am sufficiently reassured smile
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
When sitting at the bench with the music desk up, it rarely ever feels even mildly loud to the pianist (I can't imagine ever needing ear plugs while playing, for instance).
I need to show this to my family 🙃

They are worried about my ears but don’t understand anything I say. ITS NOT THAT LOUD!

Especially in a big room...

They even tried to convince me to get these earplugs.

At least they care 😉
Posted By: Dave B Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 05:19 PM
Jameezy, You have two excellent pianos to choose from. Tough decision. What did you think of the Estonia pianos?
Posted By: Sidokar Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by probably blue
I need to show this to my family 🙃

They are worried about my ears but don’t understand anything I say. ITS NOT THAT LOUD!

Especially in a big room...

They even tried to convince me to get these earplugs.

At least they care 😉

The volume that is considered harmful long term is 85db over regular and extended period of time. You can just buy a db-meter and measure by yourself the average and peaks. What is loud or not is relative to each person perception and after a while you get used even to high volumes, so factual measurement will allow you to check that.

Once you have damaged your ears, its too late ....
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by Sidokar
Originally Posted by probably blue
I need to show this to my family 🙃

They are worried about my ears but don’t understand anything I say. ITS NOT THAT LOUD!

Especially in a big room...

They even tried to convince me to get these earplugs.

At least they care 😉

The volume that is considered harmful long term is 85db over regular and extended period of time. You can just buy a db-meter and measure by yourself the average and peaks. What is loud or not is relative to each person perception and after a while you get used even to high volumes, so factual measurement will allow you to check that.

Once you have damaged your ears, its too late ....
I will still be careful, I think I just need to echo treat the room. Waiting for rug delivery and furniture.
dB meter sounds good, I could use it for other stuff too.
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 09:26 PM
Estonia may be the one I hadn’t tried out in fact. I was interested, but for whatever reason I never got to one. There was one used one on Craigslist about a half hour from me, but I didn’t pursue it.

Just heard from my tech, he says the piano is in excellent condition and wouldn’t have any reservations about it. He actually said he wishes he had it himself LOL.

Gonna go for it! Should be able to get a good run with it. There is a lifetime trade up option too, so if in 10-15 years I want a more expensive new, big piano I already have a down payment Haha. Thanks to all who pitched in! This forum has been tremendously helpful if not for anything else than therapeutically bouncing some ideas around smile
Posted By: dogperson Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 09:33 PM
Jameezy
Wonderful news and great choice 😊. Be sure to post pics when it is delivered
Posted By: ShiroKuro Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 09:34 PM
yayayayayay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How exciting!

Also, great endorsement from your tech!

Keep us posted about delivery and what not! smile
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 09:38 PM
Sadly I won’t be in the new house for another 6 weeks frown some serious delayed gratification
Posted By: ShiroKuro Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 10:03 PM
Ohh, that is a bit of a wait isn't it! Well, don't worry, we'll still be here when your piano arrives!

whome
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 10:13 PM
I’m genuinely glad you found a good piano! 😄

Funny how the Steinway, etc, went away but the C5 stayed!

I hope for a quick and safe delivery...

Also hope you stick around!

🙂🙂
Posted By: Sgisela Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/17/22 11:16 PM
Congratulations on making the decision! I think you will be very happy with the piano. Sorry it will be a bit before it’s delivered.
Posted By: j&j Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 12:06 AM
Grand pianos have amazing kids. Keep the lid closed whenever you’re practicing and even a C5 won’t be too loud.
Posted By: j&j Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 12:42 AM
Originally Posted by j&j
Grand pianos have amazing kids. Keep the lid closed whenever you’re practicing and even a C5 won’t be too loud.

Amazing lids. Darn spellcheck.
Posted By: chromaticvortex Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 12:59 AM
I'm so happy for you. Yamaha makes great pianos.
Originally Posted by Sidokar
Originally Posted by probably blue
I need to show this to my family 🙃

They are worried about my ears but don’t understand anything I say. ITS NOT THAT LOUD!

Especially in a big room...

They even tried to convince me to get these earplugs.

At least they care 😉

The volume that is considered harmful long term is 85db over regular and extended period of time. You can just buy a db-meter and measure by yourself the average and peaks. What is loud or not is relative to each person perception and after a while you get used even to high volumes, so factual measurement will allow you to check that.

Once you have damaged your ears, its too late ....

I was recently worrying about this with my Bosendorfer 225. I could swear I have noticed some ringing in my ears since I got it. One thing about high-quality audio stuff that I've heard mentioned (one of the bad things), including instruments, is that you can't always tell how loud it is. The distortion you hear is often what lets you know when something is too loud (that hurts your ears), and good quality equipment doesn't distort much, even at high volumes. So your ears might be ringing after you've been listening or whatever, since it didn't sound as loud to you. You might find yourself playing louder than before, since the sound quality is so clear. It depends on how loud you play, of course. Sometimes I'll play really loudly (like, as loud as it will go), and I think that's just not the best idea if you have a big piano. I suspect it can cause hearing damage if you do enough of it.

The lid is really good if you want to get some stress out and play your loudest (or not worry about accidentally going too loud just casually). But you should be able to get plenty of volume from a grand without having to put all your strength into it. In theory I think full stick practice is probably okay as long as you aren't going nuts with the volume. You might need to go half stick or closed lid if you're going to be hitting max volume on a grand piano. They can be loud.

Anyway, congrats! That's really cool. I bet you'll love the piano.
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 02:01 AM
Originally Posted by chromaticvortex
I'm so happy for you. Yamaha makes great pianos.
Originally Posted by Sidokar
Originally Posted by probably blue
I need to show this to my family 🙃

They are worried about my ears but don’t understand anything I say. ITS NOT THAT LOUD!

Especially in a big room...

They even tried to convince me to get these earplugs.

At least they care 😉

The volume that is considered harmful long term is 85db over regular and extended period of time. You can just buy a db-meter and measure by yourself the average and peaks. What is loud or not is relative to each person perception and after a while you get used even to high volumes, so factual measurement will allow you to check that.

Once you have damaged your ears, its too late ....

I was recently worrying about this with my Bosendorfer 225. I could swear I have noticed some ringing in my ears since I got it. One thing about high-quality audio stuff that I've heard mentioned (one of the bad things), including instruments, is that you can't always tell how loud it is. The distortion you hear is often what lets you know when something is too loud (that hurts your ears), and good quality equipment doesn't distort much, even at high volumes. So your ears might be ringing after you've been listening or whatever, since it didn't sound as loud to you. You might find yourself playing louder than before, since the sound quality is so clear. It depends on how loud you play, of course. Sometimes I'll play really loudly (like, as loud as it will go), and I think that's just not the best idea if you have a big piano. I suspect it can cause hearing damage if you do enough of it.

The lid is really good if you want to get some stress out and play your loudest (or not worry about accidentally going too loud just casually). But you should be able to get plenty of volume from a grand without having to put all your strength into it. In theory I think full stick practice is probably okay as long as you aren't going nuts with the volume. You might need to go half stick or closed lid if you're going to be hitting max volume on a grand piano. They can be loud.

Anyway, congrats! That's really cool. I bet you'll love the piano.
Only 5’5”. I just need to echo treat the room I think.

I normally do fly lid open and music desk. Main lid is closed.

I don’t play loud TBH.
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 02:02 AM
Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by j&j
Grand pianos have amazing kids. Keep the lid closed whenever you’re practicing and even a C5 won’t be too loud.

Amazing lids. Darn spellcheck.
When I read this at first, I thought it meant keep the lid closed so the kids don’t mess around.
Posted By: I. Bruton Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 03:05 AM
Congrats! Yamaha C5 is an excellent choice!
Posted By: j&j Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 12:44 PM
Yeah the lid positions on a grand, especially on a large grand give the pianist great sound with volume control. Check out all the suggested lid positions before adding anything for audio control. Also, prescription ear plugs (who knew) can offer relief from ringing in the ears. Try the easy stuff first. There are tons of suggestions on this Forum and also in Larry Fine’s Piano Buyer’s Book. Best Wishes!
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 01:31 PM
Just to go back to original question I had, final price was just under $26k, after tax $27.5k. The original listing was $29k plus tax (original post was already after some negotiation), so $3k off listing at least. Was hoping for a little lower but he wouldn’t budge any more, and I just want the piano at this point haha. Also, I think local market here is a little higher than what I’ve seen in other places online. For what it’s worth my tech thought it was fairly priced.

I second all regarding hearing protection. My first instrument was drums, after playing without ear protection in rock bands throughout high school and going to a lot of concerts, I have learned the hard way, as I already have slight hearing loss in one ear. Take it seriously.

Thanks again to all who’ve chipped in on here!
Posted By: j&j Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by probably blue
Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by j&j
Grand pianos have amazing kids. Keep the lid closed whenever you’re practicing and even a C5 won’t be too loud.

Amazing lids. Darn spellcheck.
When I read this at first, I thought it meant keep the lid closed so the kids don’t mess around.

That too. We have a few friends that have to fiddle with things when they talk. The piano lid remains closed whenever they come over. I don’t know how these people ever made adulthood. Don’t touch other people’s stuff.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by j&j
That too. We have a few friends that have to fiddle with things when they talk. The piano lid remains closed whenever they come over. I don’t know how these people ever made adulthood. Don’t touch other people’s stuff.

Do they reach into the piano and pluck the strings??
Posted By: ShiroKuro Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 02:50 PM
Jameezy, I think that sounds like a good price. I think you're right, in this market, piano prices are up, that's just how it is.
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by j&j
That too. We have a few friends that have to fiddle with things when they talk. The piano lid remains closed whenever they come over. I don’t know how these people ever made adulthood. Don’t touch other people’s stuff.

Do they reach into the piano and pluck the strings??
I mean-what else can you do?
Posted By: chromaticvortex Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by probably blue
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by j&j
That too. We have a few friends that have to fiddle with things when they talk. The piano lid remains closed whenever they come over. I don’t know how these people ever made adulthood. Don’t touch other people’s stuff.

Do they reach into the piano and pluck the strings??
I mean-what else can you do?

Is it when they're talking about or commenting on the piano itself? I found my mom starting to touch the inside of the piano when I was showing it to her. She was talking about how beautiful it was etc., and then reached out and touched the frame or strings or something to ask a question or make a comment.

I had to jump on her a bit, I was like "now please don't go touching that, it's all been set up very carefully, and I wouldn't want something to get messed up by accident."
Posted By: ShiroKuro Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 04:54 PM
At my last party (just a month before the first covid lockdown), I had planned on keeping the piano lid closed and the fallboard down, but someone (maybe here) pointed out that if the lid is closed, please may be tempted to set their glasses on the piano.

So I ended up opening the lid to the short stick, and opening the fallboard. I also made a little sign, printed on cardstock with fancy lettering, that said something like "no drinks -- or anything else -- on the piano. Thank you!"

It seemed to work, nothing on the piano during the party.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
At my last party (just a month before the first covid lockdown), I had planned on keeping the piano lid closed and the fallboard down, but someone (maybe here) pointed out that if the lid is closed, please may be tempted to set their glasses on the piano.

Wow, that's a good catch. It would just kill my mood for the party if that happened. Sounds like you came up with a great solution!
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 06:25 PM
Put the piano on LOCKDOWN!

Fallboard lock (clamping thing) thick piano cover with locking straps, DO NOT TOUCH sign, piano security guards, OK maybe not that last one-well YOU are the security guard!
Posted By: dogperson Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by probably blue
Put the piano on LOCKDOWN!

Fallboard lock (clamping thing) thick piano cover with locking straps, DO NOT TOUCH sign, piano security guards, OK maybe not that last one-well YOU are the security guard!


Or maybe just a polite sign: please, no food or drinks around the piano
Posted By: probably blue Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/18/22 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by probably blue
Put the piano on LOCKDOWN!

Fallboard lock (clamping thing) thick piano cover with locking straps, DO NOT TOUCH sign, piano security guards, OK maybe not that last one-well YOU are the security guard!


Or maybe just a polite sign: please, no food or drinks around the piano
ha That will work too—
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 02:27 PM
Interesting development....

I put down a $5.5K deposit on the Yamaha (I got price down to $25.5K, just under $27K after tax). The Schimmel dealer calls me a few days later, saying he is getting a new Schimmel Classic 189 next week, and offers it to me for $40K+tax. I said I already put down that deposit, he knocks it down to $37K+tax.

I'll go sit down at it, but after the deposit loss and tax, I will end up at $45K, so will have to come out of pocket an additional $18K for the new Schimmel classic over the 1999 Yamaha C5.

My thought now is get the Yamaha, then in 5-10 years if I want to upgrade to a higher level piano I can, even though I doubt I'd find a similar deal. But for now since I am still really playing at an intermediate level wait a few years to develop my own style and ear before dropping that kind of money on a piano. The Yamaha will serve me well for now, and nowhere does it say that it has to be a "forever piano."

But what a wrench! From what I gather $37K is a ridiculous deal on a new Schimmel Classic 189.
Posted By: Sidokar Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by Jameezy
Interesting development....

But what a wrench! From what I gather $37K is a ridiculous deal on a new Schimmel Classic 189.

I dont know the local market. In Europe that would be the normal price.
Posted By: terminaldegree Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 04:01 PM
Yes, that is an exceptionally low price for a C189, but you've already put down a deposit on a C5 that you like. The C5 isn't exactly a screamingly good deal at this price, but in the end I would definitely advise you to buy the piano you like best, and not the "deal"... If it's the low bass richness and power you're after, the C5 will probably be better in this regard, while the tone, keyboard and actions of these two pianos will be quite different from each other.
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 05:12 PM
Terminal degree, your point is well taken. I suppose it’s a little bit of a bummer just knowing that had I waited 1 week I could have potentially had another great option. I think the Schimmel classic would provide a little more richness and bass than the smaller W. Schimmel, which was the main deciding factor in going with the Yamaha. But at the time I was making the decision last week it wasn’t an option. I also felt the Yamaha was priced a little high, but not ridiculous, especially given the local market here. and it is in excellent shape.

This was my first experience buying an acoustic piano, and Ive learned a ton. I think the Yamaha C5 will be great, and has something to offer that is very different than Schimmel. It’s been very hard to say which piano I like BEST, since I like both for different reasons.

Like I mentioned before, I think the C5 will be a terrific piano for me given where I am in my musical journey, and committing to the even higher priced Schimmel classic (despite the relative good deal on it now) would be premature for me given my lack of experience with acoustic pianos in general.
Posted By: dogperson Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 05:26 PM
Jameezy
Good plan! You don’t know what your taste will be in five years. In fact, you may decide you are very happy with the C5
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 05:28 PM
by no means am I disappointed with the C5. I’ve loved playing it every time I’ve been able to sit down at it. And that makes me feel good about the decision too.

I have found this piano buying experience to be incredibly stressful, and filled with feelings of doubt. I hope that next time around, after gaining some experience, it will be these little easier.
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 05:36 PM
Dogperson thanks for the words of encouragement!
Posted By: Sgisela Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 06:32 PM
Jameezy, I think the C5 will be a great piano for you! You did your due diligence on the purchase, and at some point, it’s important for the shopping roller coaster to be done. It sounds like you’re not having too many second thoughts… so just keep it that way and look forward to the day that it’s delivered to your home!
Posted By: ShiroKuro Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 07:43 PM
Hmm, that's tricky but since the Schimmel is so much more expensive, it wouldn't have been an automatic decision in any case.

And the Schimmel is enticing now precisely because you haven't played it yet. You might find you don't even like it.

I think this is the piano version of FOMO -- I bought this piano, but now another one has come along, oh no!

It's totally natural, but try not to torture yourself.

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I have found this piano buying experience to be incredibly stressful, and filled with feelings of doubt. I hope that next time around, after gaining some experience, it will be these little easier.

The piano buying process is totally stressful, it's not just you and it's not because you're doing something wrong. You're actually doing it right, but there's no way around the fact that you have difficult choices and limited resources financially (we all do, even if the numbers are different, we all have a top number above which we can't go).

I do think it will be a little easier in a few years just because experience, both as a piano shopper and as a grand-owner, makes a big difference.

Hang in there!!
Posted By: pianoloverus Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 07:52 PM
Maybe the Yamaha dealer will agree to refunding the 5K deposit. After trying the new Schimmel offered by the other dealer you could ask the dealer selling the Yamaha. Or maybe he'd agree to returning most, if not all, of your 5K deposit. There might even be some law that requires him to refund the deposit if you decide you don't want the piano. Of course, all the above is contingent on your deciding that you like the Schimmel more.

Terminaldegree's advice about NOT buying the deal is very important. No matter how good the deal is it won't really be a good deal if you don't like the piano a lot.
Posted By: Jameezy Re: Yamaha C5 price - 05/22/22 08:28 PM
All great advice. I’ll go check it out this week. If I absolutely love it, I’ll call back the Yamaha dealer and see what he says about the deposit. If it’s not a total game changer I’ll keep with my original decision, because it is still a decent chunk of money we’re talking about ($13k if I get deposit back, $18k without).

I think piano FOMO is exactly what this is! Hahah. I almost wish the Schimmel dealer just didn’t tell me about the new piano!
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