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Posted By: EDV Masks during the lesson ? - 10/11/21 03:09 AM
My city is covid free yet nearly all clinics and supermarkets ask people to wear masks inside. Should I ask my students to wear masks too ? I have a couple of -adult- students who don't wear masks during lessons but they are fully vaccinated.

Edit: I am a bit worried about the new students coming in... they may be put off by the mask wearing and opt out of the lessons.
Posted By: Nahum Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/11/21 05:40 AM
At my age, I do not make any indulgences, and I meet students in a mask. This hint is enough for everyone.
Posted By: EDV Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/11/21 05:59 AM
The thing is...wearing a mask only protects the other person, not you. So if the other person sneezes and only you are wearing a mask, you could still catch it.
Posted By: wouter79 Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/11/21 08:53 AM
I did wear a mask when I had lessons. My teacher did not.

I think the recommendation is still to wear masks indoors if distance can not be kept.

Also remember that most masks do very little, because they don't even fit tightly to start with. Vaccinated people can also carry the virus and infect you, it's just that they get less ill. And many people carrying the virus don't show symptoms anyway, even when not vaccinated. If you really want to protect yourself and the other students, you should wear a good (at least N3) and properly fitting mask yourself, have good ventilation, clean the touched areas, etc.
Posted By: Animisha Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/11/21 10:23 AM
Originally Posted by EDV
My city is covid free yet nearly all clinics and supermarkets ask people to wear masks inside. Should I ask my students to wear masks too ? I have a couple of -adult- students who don't wear masks during lessons but they are fully vaccinated.

Edit: I am a bit worried about the new students coming in... they may be put off by the mask wearing and opt out of the lessons.

Covid is still not even near to being eradicated, and a city that is free from covid one day can have many newly infected people the next day.

Did you have two vaccinations and are you not too worried if you'll get covid? Have the lessons without masks.

Are you very determined that you don't want to get covid, regardless of how many if any vaccinations you have had? Have all your lessons online.
Posted By: wouter79 Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/11/21 12:31 PM
>Did you have two vaccinations and are you not too worried if you'll get covid? Have the lessons without masks.

If you are teaching, you may want to put the bar a bit higher than just being worried about yourself. You can get covid unnoticed and then infect all your students.
Posted By: Animisha Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/11/21 12:53 PM
Originally Posted by wouter79
>Did you have two vaccinations and are you not too worried if you'll get covid? Have the lessons without masks.

If you are teaching, you may want to put the bar a bit higher than just being worried about yourself. You can get covid unnoticed and then infect all your students.

Every person takes their own responsibility. If you are afraid that your piano teacher will infect you, you take online lessons. If you want the tiny protection that a mask offers, you kindly ask your teacher to wear a mask.
Posted By: mostlystrings Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/11/21 07:52 PM
A few things that a mask "does" that aren't related to the material/construction/fit:
- reminds me that a global pandemic is still going on and there are societal consequences even if I personally am seemingly unaffected
- reminds me to be aware of the situations I choose to get into when out and about and interacting with people
- prevents me from absentmindedly touching my face/nose/mouth, a habit that should be watched regardless of pandemic

Schools in my U.S. state mandate masks for all, so that's good enough for me to treat my rented lesson spaces as a school-like activity with masks required.
Posted By: CodySean Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/11/21 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by wouter79
>Did you have two vaccinations and are you not too worried if you'll get covid? Have the lessons without masks.

If you are teaching, you may want to put the bar a bit higher than just being worried about yourself. You can get covid unnoticed and then infect all your students.

Every person takes their own responsibility. If you are afraid that your piano teacher will infect you, you take online lessons. If you want the tiny protection that a mask offers, you kindly ask your teacher to wear a mask.
agreed

the school i teach at had parents choose to sign up for maskless lessons back in may of this year i believe--signing a waiver and everything, not disclosing whether they or I am vaccinated. every parent indeed signed their students up for maskless with me. i have one young beginner who still wears a mask, and if that's what she wants to do then okay, fine by me.
Posted By: Blague Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/12/21 01:07 PM
Everyone at my school wears masks for the duration. It's not been an issue for me or my teacher, and while I've been there I haven't noticed anyone else having a problem with it.
Posted By: malkin Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/12/21 03:24 PM
My teacher and I both wore masks when it was required and before we were vaccinated. We have been maskless for a while now. When the odd upper respiratory thing has passed through one or the other of us has masked up for a lesson. It has not been a big deal.
Posted By: Candywoman Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/13/21 04:51 PM
If you can go maskless, you should and so should your students. Ever notice a person's glasses fogging up while wearing a mask? That's because there is moisture in every breath one exhales. This moisture is present with or without a mask. It escapes from the mask and goes into the air. If you want a false sense of security, like Linus with his blanket, go ahead and wear the mask, or if you want to put the parents' minds at ease, wear a fake mask with as little cloth as possible. It's about appearances, not reality. Reality has left the building.
Posted By: SoundThumb Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/14/21 04:43 AM
Originally Posted by Candywoman
If you can go maskless, you should and so should your students. Ever notice a person's glasses fogging up while wearing a mask? That's because there is moisture in every breath one exhales. This moisture is present with or without a mask. It escapes from the mask and goes into the air.

I'm sorry, but I just can't let this statement stand without a response. This is the kind of misinformation that has caused mask wearing to become so controversial. It may be true that some virus particles attach to the water vapor that we continuously breath out. But that is not the primary way the virus is transmitted. The virus is attached to the small water droplets that are expelled when we cough, sneeze, sing or talk loudly. Those droplets are effectively stopped by a decent mask. The better the mask, the fewer droplets escape. The main method of transmission is by liquid water, not water vapor.
Posted By: TimR Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/14/21 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by SoundThumb
It may be true that some virus particles attach to the water vapor that we continuously breath out. But that is not the primary way the virus is transmitted.

It had never occurred to me that virus could attach to water vapor, anymore than it could to the nitrogen that makes up 78% of our air. Both are gases.

So I googled. I did not find any support for this idea anywhere, but there was some interesting information on water droplets and humidity that are relevant to this time of year (in the northern hemisphere where I live.)

It seems expelled water droplets evaporate. The more they evaporate, the farther they fly. Remember they are tiny, so there isn't much water in each. In high humidity they evaporate slowly, and bump into surfaces and stick more quickly; in low humidity they become smaller quickly and travel much farther and stay in the air longer.

Hospital infection rates seem to go up whenever humidity is below 40%, because of the increased transmission, and that is common any time we're in heating season. Probably that's a major component for colds and flu spreading during winter seasons.

So yes, masks do some good, they aren't perfect, but they are going to provide some increased level of safety, and anything helps. IMO, which is worth what you paid for it, but consider the logic.
Posted By: malkin Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/14/21 01:55 PM
Maybe I just want to stay comfortable in my own echo chamber, but I'd rather not affiliate with people who lose the ability to function rationally around the issue of a small bit of face covering.

EDV if your economic situation creates a need for students who may be put off by mask wearing then that's a reasonable consideration.

Keep up the hand hygiene and good ventilation in your space.

If case rates are low in your area, then the risk of covid is probably less than the risk of any other cooties that circulate.
Posted By: jdw Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/15/21 02:55 PM
Hmm, looking up EDV I get End-diastolic volume and elektronische Datenverarbeitung....
Posted By: keystring Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/15/21 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by jdw
Hmm, looking up EDV I get End-diastolic volume and elektronische Datenverarbeitung....

The original poster who opened the topic goes by "EDV", like you go by "jdw". (I almost got caught out too. your second one becomes EDP in English - Electronic Data Processing). But no, EDV is a person's handle in the forum. wink
Posted By: Iaroslav Vasiliev Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/15/21 03:29 PM
If your city is really covid free I see no point in wearing masks during the lessons.
Posted By: Blague Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/15/21 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by Candywoman
If you can go maskless, you should and so should your students. Ever notice a person's glasses fogging up while wearing a mask? That's because there is moisture in every breath one exhales. This moisture is present with or without a mask. It escapes from the mask and goes into the air. If you want a false sense of security, like Linus with his blanket, go ahead and wear the mask, or if you want to put the parents' minds at ease, wear a fake mask with as little cloth as possible. It's about appearances, not reality. Reality has left the building.

I feel exactly the same. For that matter whenever I cough or sneeze I also don't bother to cover my mouth and nose with tissue or my elbow. After all since it's not 100% effective in preventing some virus-laden droplets into the environment I think its fairly reasonable to not do anything at all.
Posted By: Charles Cohen Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/15/21 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Blague
. . . After all since it's not 100% effective in preventing some virus-laden droplets into the environment I think its fairly reasonable to not do anything at all.

I'm not sure if this is meant seriously, or ironically.

If it's ironic, or sarcastic, I have no problems with it.

If it's meant seriously, I'd extend the logic, and hope that readers understand that what I say _is_ meant as sarcasm:

. . . Since some people die in auto accidents -- even with seatbelts and airbags --
. . . . . I'm going to disconnect my airbags and not use a seatbelt when I drive.

The fallacy is the same as that in:

. . . "Vaccinated people occasionally get Covid, and occasionally die of it. So why should I get vaccinated?"

You can't guarantee a good outcome, but you _can_ shift the odds by what you choose to do.

(Moderators -- This is my only, and last, post on this topic.)
Posted By: malkin Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/15/21 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by jdw
Hmm, looking up EDV I get End-diastolic volume and elektronische Datenverarbeitung....

The original poster who opened the topic goes by "EDV", like you go by "jdw". (I almost got caught out too. your second one becomes EDP in English - Electronic Data Processing). But no, EDV is a person's handle in the forum. wink

If you look up my username, you might think I was a hockey player or fan, unless you looked further.
Posted By: Blague Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/15/21 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by Blague
. . . After all since it's not 100% effective in preventing some virus-laden droplets into the environment I think its fairly reasonable to not do anything at all.

I'm not sure if this is meant seriously, or ironically.

If it's ironic, or sarcastic, I have no problems with it.

Yes, it was meant to be absurd, sarcastic.
Posted By: Candywoman Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/16/21 06:18 PM
Removed for opinions that don't reflect the widely accepted science and evidence, and for having nothing to do with piano.
It's a piano forum, please stick to the subject.
Posted By: jdw Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/16/21 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by jdw
Hmm, looking up EDV I get End-diastolic volume and elektronische Datenverarbeitung....

The original poster who opened the topic goes by "EDV", like you go by "jdw". (I almost got caught out too. your second one becomes EDP in English - Electronic Data Processing). But no, EDV is a person's handle in the forum. wink

Ah yes, missed that. Also, I was trained to expect a comma after a name being addressed--way old school. I didn't even realize I was looking for that till its absence made me misread (not saying it should have been there, just that old habits die hard.)
Posted By: EDV Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/20/21 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
If your city is really covid free I see no point in wearing masks during the lessons.

All the known covid cases are in hospital in my city. The borders are closed ( they do open in a few days though ) so the Delta variant is not really active in the community. Even so, supermarkets, clinics, offices, and most other places expect and even require people to wear masks... I nearly got kicked out of my local clinic for not wearing one a few weeks ago ( the safer your city, the higher the paranoia apparently ) so unfortunately, I need to have a mask wearing policy in effect.
Posted By: BDB Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/21/21 03:56 AM
Anyone who thinks that masks should only be worn if there are 100% effective has no business teaching piano, or anything else, because no teacher is 100% effective.
Posted By: Candywoman Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/23/21 06:36 PM
BDB, that doesn't even make sense. No teacher promises to be 100% effective. Teachers set a rate, students pay the rate and learn to be content with what is taught to them. At the same time, the teacher tries to accept that students don't practice, have high expectations of teachers and low expectations of themselves, want recitals but don't want to do the work that's necessary, and want to switch lesson times all the time.
Posted By: BDB Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 10/28/21 08:45 PM
I guess that means that you think masks have to be 100% effective at preventing disease, but you do not need to be 100% effective at teaching music.
Posted By: fatar760 Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 11/02/21 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by Candywoman
If you can go maskless, you should and so should your students. Ever notice a person's glasses fogging up while wearing a mask? That's because there is moisture in every breath one exhales. This moisture is present with or without a mask. It escapes from the mask and goes into the air. If you want a false sense of security, like Linus with his blanket, go ahead and wear the mask, or if you want to put the parents' minds at ease, wear a fake mask with as little cloth as possible. It's about appearances, not reality. Reality has left the building.

Ignore everything in this deeply ignorant post.
Posted By: fatar760 Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 11/03/21 12:02 AM
EDV:

May I ask where you live? I love how seriously your community is taking the necessary steps to keep everyone safe. Remember though, that you're only 'Covid-free' if your testing rates are high. If not many tests are being carried out then it could be going undetected.

On the subject matter:

I'd say that, as teachers, we have a duty of care to all that we teach. The idea of wearing a mask is about protecting others, sadly many still don't realise this. If I'm feeling a little unwell and vulnerable I will wear a mask. I test regularly, as do my students and they have to provide 2 negative lateral flow tests every 7 days. You can also request the vaccination status if they are happy to give it. Most students are compliant with these requests as they want to do the right thing.

Bottom line - don't be afraid to set whatever Covid measures you deem are necessary to keep you, your oractice, and your students, safe. If a student disagrees with your requirements then maybe ask yourself if they're suitable students for you.
Posted By: missbelle Re: Masks during the lesson ? - 11/19/21 03:19 AM
I added a large sign by my home studio door that ways, "Please wash your hands."

My director at the school I teach said at our orientation meeting, "Miss Belle has a policy that you must wash hands first. You can set our own policy regarding assembly of instrument, metronome, parents, etc..."

Masks are good reminders not to touch your face. Kids still touch...everything else...
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