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Posted By: john fh Barry Harris Scale HELP - 09/27/21 06:27 AM
Help. I have seen videos until I am crazy. They go too fast for a half deaf old man. I am trying to hear what they are saying and then they play at the same time making it near impossible to hear.

I know the notes for the scale in C are C D E F G Ab A B. What is the proper fingering for this scale? For a two octave scale for both hands would be great too. What are the chords for this scale?

Thank you
Posted By: RinTin Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 09/27/21 06:39 AM
1234 1234 fingering is one way

I often set the YouTube speed to .75
Posted By: Rhodes74 Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 09/27/21 07:48 AM
The chords are Cminor6 and Ab diminished in all inversions.

-Rhodes74

p.s: CEGA and AbBDF
Posted By: john fh Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 09/27/21 08:59 AM
You said the chords are Cminor6 and. . . p.s. CEGA. . .

I thought Cminor6 was C Eb G A and CEGA = C6 or am I confused?
Posted By: Rhodes74 Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 09/27/21 09:32 AM
Of course you're right, it is C6!
Sorry for confusion

-Rhodes74
Posted By: MrShed Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 09/30/21 06:43 AM
That is Barry's 6th Diminished scale and he has a minor version, dominant. For me the key to the sound is harmonize the scale like you would any other using every other note and see what chords you get. Then play the harmonized scale and get the sound in your ear, then listen to some Jazz standards and you'll hear that sound being used all the time. Then there is a set of videos using the scale to create lines and why that extra note is there.

Barry Harris' video can be hard to understand he talks kind of fast and like the old Jazz masters he doesn't repeat himself. Actually Barry says a lot more than most the old Jazz masters do to them the lesson comes from listening to them play. The are other YouTube videos by people who have spend a lot of time with Barry that explain and play examples that make it easier to understand. The one I would recommend is Chris Parks and his YouTube channel is called "Things I learned from Barry Harris". Chris is a guitar player but any instrument can learn from the way Chris explains Barry. Below is a link to one of Chris's YouTubes.

Posted By: john fh Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 10/03/21 02:22 PM
I think I ask a question when I had all of the answers in my book case. A few years back I purchased two books - Jazz Piano Masterclass, The Drop2 Book and The Jazz Piano Book. both by Mark Levine. Then I hurt my hands over working with cement block so the books hit the book case. A couple of years later I saw the Barry Harris Masterclass on you tube. I did not connect Barry Harris and the books at the time. As time went on I recovered from a nasty fall into an empty cement pond and two or three heart attacks. The medical problems all happened mixed in with the information about Barry Harris and Levine's books. So now about a year later, recovering nicely and getting back into piano I saw another Barry Harris video that caused me to start this thread. Then as I read the answers and was thinking about maybe ordering lessons on line or books on the subject I saw a picture of The Jazz Piano Book on one of the mail order places and, Bingo, I remembered having a book that looked liked that. I located both books still in like new condition and now I am studying/working away. The Drop 2 Book is great.

Thank you to all who replied to this thread. Remember, do not get old, sick, and forgetful. Getting old is not fun.
Posted By: MrShed Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 10/04/21 08:54 PM
Drop 2 is a method along with Drop 3 and other variations. I got into them in all my years of guitar because many of the voicings used by Jazz guitarists are Drop 2 and Drop 3 because of the strange matrix of notes that is the guitar fretboard. Drop 2 from what I understand came from the arranging world and method of voicing horns. On piano its a good way to open up close voicings. Even in the Barry Harris world people get into Drop 2 voicings, better have big hand or split the voicing across both hands. The Jazz Piano Book I don't think it covers the Barry Harris approach to chords and scales. I only say this you know The Jazz Piano Book is an excellent resource, but it's not going to give you Barry Harris diminished view of Jazz piano.
Posted By: john fh Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 10/05/21 04:53 AM
Thank you. Is there any book/books that explains Barry Harris's approach to chords and scales? I want to learn what is in Mark Levine's books and all of the Barry Harris stuff too. So far all I have to work with on Barry Harris stuff is this scale C6 Dm7b5 Em7 FM7 G7 Abdim7 Am7 Bdim7 C6.

Now that I know a little bit about 4-way close and drop 2 I am thinking about using the rules for those and applying them to BH's scale to see what happens.
Posted By: Nahum Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 10/05/21 07:49 AM
Originally Posted by john fh
Thank you. Is there any book/books that explains Barry Harris's approach to chords and scales? I want to learn what is in Mark Levine's books and all of the Barry Harris stuff too. So far all I have to work with on Barry Harris stuff is this scale C6 Dm7b5 Em7 FM7 G7 Abdim7 Am7 Bdim7 C6.

Now that I know a little bit about 4-way close and drop 2 I am thinking about using the rules for those and applying them to BH's scale to see what happens.
It is so simple!

C G E\A , D Ab F\C , D A F\C , E B G \D , F C Ab \E , F C A \E , G D B \F, Ab E C\ G ,
A E C \G , B F D \ Ab, B F D \A .
Posted By: john fh Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 10/05/21 10:42 AM
Hi Nahum. It is so simple, maybe, but it went right over my head. I see you are telling me what to do with the BH scale but I do not understand. Please explain.
Posted By: Nahum Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 10/05/21 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by john fh
Hi Nahum. It is so simple, maybe, but it went right over my head. I see you are telling me what to do with the BH scale but I do not understand. Please explain.
I beg your pardon, but from your post I concluded that you understood the idea of Drop 2; and then it is really very simple.
Posted By: john fh Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 10/05/21 05:58 PM
I do understand Drop 2 or at least I think I do. I just learned it this last week. Maybe I am making a mistake somewhere along the line. I have so far only studied drop 2 using major 6th chords. I have not yet dealt with 7th chords. Maybe that is the problem.

If I take the FM7 from BH's Scale FACE and change it to ACEF then I drop the E and play the E in my left hand and play ACF in the right hand. Is that correct?

Sorry if I do not make my post clean and cause confusion. I really appreciate your help.
Posted By: Nahum Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 10/06/21 07:07 AM
Originally Posted by john fh
If I take the FM7 from BH's Scale FACE and change it to ACEF then I drop the E and play the E in my left hand and play ACF in the right hand. Is that correct?
Yes. Drop 2 position refers to any seventh in any inversion; however, the correct order of voices does not automatically produce good voicing sound. For example, the second inversion of C6 in the drop2 position - EGC \ A - does not sound like major as in the drop3 position - EAC \ G. The reason for this phenomenon is the natural ratio of overtones on which both the closed and open positions of the voicings are based. This is where the logic of chord constructions begins; but unfortunately popular textbooks don't explain it.
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Posted By: john fh Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 10/06/21 07:29 AM
Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Now time to practice.
Posted By: Nahum Re: Barry Harris Scale HELP - 10/06/21 10:47 AM
Originally Posted by john fh
Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Now time to practice.
You're welcome!
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