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Posted By: Marcus Lai Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/16/21 10:48 AM
This is a separate issue from my previous thread about a fluttering sound in the bass notes of the NV5. Opinions there were almost evenly split as to whether it was a problem or not. My dealer said it wasn't an issue. Oh well.

For this different sound issue ... perhaps best to view the video first ... :



It only occurs when a line-in cable is plugged in.

I can hear this from the speakers (as in the video) but more annoyingly also in the headphones where the quietness means it is that much more disruptive.

The line-in cable is connected to my macbook pro headphone jack. This sizzle sound can be heard whether the computer is outputting sound or on mute.

The local dealer said they are forwarding the issue to Kawai for input, but I was hoping someone here might have some explanation or solution. Or at least confirm this issue is / is not present on your NV5.

If this is not fixable, it will be a deal breaker as I play in accompaniment to music videos played on the computer. (Bluetooth is not acceptable due to lag.)

Really not sure why pedaling would somehow be related to the line-in cable. Must be some wiring issues?

Any ideas? Really would appreicate any help.
Posted By: mmatthew Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/16/21 10:57 AM
I am leaning towards the issue being with the NV5. But:

Computer sound cards aren't the best at delivering clean, pro-audio quality sound that we would expect to be in the range of or compatible with high-end instruments. So, I am strongly feeling that routing this through a sound card/audio interface will make a huge difference.

I don't have an NV5. My VST setup is not the same as yours. But when I first routed sound directly from the computer's 3.5mm out to a monitor, I had lots of noise, hissing and stray elements. Like, even if I move the mouse around and click something on the computer, a noise would be heard on the monitor.

I think we need to wait for the experts and more experienced kind folks here for further input, but I just wanted to share my thoughts.
Posted By: Marcus Lai Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/16/21 11:15 AM
Originally Posted by mmathew
Computer sound cards aren't the best at delivering clean, pro-audio quality sound that we would expect to be in the range of or compatible with high-end instruments. So, I am strongly feeling that routing this through a sound card/audio interface will make a huge difference.

Yes I have read similar. The fact that this unwanted noise comes only when pedaling means it should be a piano issue, but I do want to know the best way (or at least better than onboard sound chip + headphone jack) to get computer sound to a DP's 3.5mm line-in. Could you point me to some thread or maybe a product page on amazon or something? I have seen some amplifiers but they really seem overkill.

I just need to play along to e.g. youtube videos on my macbook pro.
Posted By: mmatthew Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/16/21 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by Marcus Lai
... The fact that this unwanted noise comes only when pedaling means it should be a piano issue ...

This is why I am hesitant to rule out a piano issue.

However, if I wanted to use an audio interface, I'd start with something simple but leaving some room for further expansion, like the Focusrite Scarlet series which is pretty popular and good quality.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...scarlett-2i2-3rd-gen-usb-audio-interface

You could install the drivers, plug your computer via USB to the Focusrite and route the output to the NV5 using a 3.5mm adapter (from the headphones out jack of Focusrite.) Another option is to combine the stereo outputs of the Focusrite to the NV5.

I don't think you need an amplifier. If the sound is low, first use the line-in volume slider of the NV5 to see if that works.

The NV5 is a fine instrument and I hope these issues are resolved soon so you can begin to enjoy your musical experience :-)
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/16/21 01:13 PM
On first read I suspected damper noise, which they've deliberately added for realism. (Never mind that their "realistic" level is far greater than what is truly realisitic.)

But when you turned that off and you demonstrated the "sizzle" I became puzzled.

Given that the noise appears when pressing the damper pedal it's clearly a piano problem. (Or is it a feature?)
I wonder what Kawai will say about this.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/16/21 03:04 PM
The Line-In Jacks of the Novus can be stupid. I had similar Issues with the NV10 in the past. I double check this on my NV5 since i haven't tried it.

You would hear the noise on a normal keypress too because either you press a pedal or press a key doesn't matter for the Hardware. Both are "playing" something and it is send through the amp. With a faulty Line-In you have this sizzle sound mixed in in this process, even when turned of the damper noise.
Wait.. Bluetooth lag?! Isn't it advertised that the purpose of playing music through speakers is so you can play along with the music?
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/17/21 12:33 AM
Yes, play some recorded music over bluetooth into speakers so that you can sing (or play) along.

Just don't try to send the sound of your piano over bluetooth.

Latency in the recorded music is irrelevant. Latency in your piano sound is bothersome.
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/17/21 07:16 PM
Recorded music always has latency, sometimes decades!
Posted By: Thomas B Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/18/21 05:05 PM
I think the sounds from the other thread were perfectly ok, but now this seems really strange. I guess Kawai might say that you should not connect headphone output to line input, but honestly that should not be the issue (just connect a CD player if you own one to rule that out). Do you have any other connections between your NV5 and the computer apart from the line input (can you rule out that the sound is coming from the MacBook, weird idea, I know)?
Posted By: Checker Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/21/21 11:39 AM
Such hissing noise is usually created by ground loop https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity). Try another line-in source, i.e. smartphone to check it. Or try to disconnect you MacBook from the power source and check when it runs on battery.
You can try to get rid of the ground loop noise by using devices called “ground loop breaker”.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 03/21/21 01:18 PM
I tried the Line-in on My Novus with a Laptop connected and haven't experienced the ground loop issue so far. I double checked the damper noise too. It works like a charm. Either you have a ground loop in the connection or the Line-in is broken. I would recommend trying different sources of input devices first like Tablets or Smartphones.
Posted By: aprileon Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 09:09 AM
Hi,

yesterday I had this problem after not playing the instrument for a couple of weeks:

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/544483016
https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/544482914

It occurred already last year but disappeared immediately after switching off/on again. This time it stayed for a couple of hours.

It's terrible and actually it hurts the ears when there are these extremely loud bursts as heard in the first video.

Did anybody experience something like this, too?

Thanks, Leo
You need to drop the "manage/videos/" part from the URL.
Posted By: Tyr Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 10:12 AM
So much dust. shocked

I haven't experienced anything like that but it sounds like a damaged mainboard.
Isn't it like a bad connection to the speakers or a single speaker?
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by aprileon
Did anybody experience something like this, too?

Never.

Please contact your dealer to have the issue investigated and resolved.

Kind regards,
James
x
Posted By: EB5AGV Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 11:54 AM
Technically, I would say D/A converter or audio amplifier chain fault. All in all, you need to contact your dealer / KAWAI service.

This kind of things makes me feel better on my approach to digital pianos, using a separate controller and VSTs. That will for sure last more, be more upgradeable and easier to fix than having all in one complex proprietary box. IMHO of course
Posted By: mmatthew Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by EB5AGV
... using a separate controller and VSTs. That will for sure last more...

Times have passed when this would be called "futuristic." Not any more. This is the current and future state. Unless one is well versed and qualified, it might take a while to get the hardware, software and their interactions right - but once there, it's bliss.
Posted By: peterws Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by aprileon
Hi,

yesterday I had this problem after not playing the instrument for a couple of weeks:

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/544483016
https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/544482914

It occurred already last year but disappeared immediately after switching off/on again. This time it stayed for a couple of hours.

It's terrible and actually it hurts the ears when there are these extremely loud bursts as heard in the first video.

Did anybody experience something like this, too?

Thanks, Leo

I couldn't play the vid, but from your description, it's a motherboard problem, similar to what I had on my Kawai Cn 27 I think, after the turn of the Millenium. It took nearly a year to get it fixed; Kawai wanted it reported by a designated technician, and not by recorded evidence. Trouble is, it sometimes played up and sometimes didn't . . . it was fine when it was done.
Posted By: peterws Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by mmathew
Originally Posted by EB5AGV
... using a separate controller and VSTs. That will for sure last more...

Times have passed when this would be called "futuristic." Not any more. This is the current and future state. Unless one is well versed and qualified, it might take a while to get the hardware, software and their interactions right - but once there, it's bliss.

Depends on who's playing the thing . . .
Posted By: EinLudov Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 02:09 PM
Try using an inline attenuator on the input.

Macbooks have very dense circuitry that causes all sorts of DC pollution of the analog out.

If the attenuator doesn't work, and you're adamant about using that macbook, Use a USB to Toslink converter, Then Toslink to a DAC, then into the NV5.

If it still has this noise after the Toslink dac, that means it's the NV5. You could never know for sure until you disconnect the jigawatts from these devices by using optical..
Posted By: aprileon Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 03:33 PM
HI,

thanks for the replays, I will contact my dealer.

The correct video urls are:

https://vimeo.com/544483016
https://vimeo.com/544482914

Don't get me wrong - I love the instrument, I have never played a digital piano before where I completely forgot that it is sample based. You can hear it when you are very very attentive, but that is not the point for me. Important is that it sounds absolutely great, very spatial, and is super responsive, somehow alive. However, my model feels quite "beta". There have been other glitches took.

Interestingly, the problem seems to be related to the long pause (over a month not switched on) due to a problem with my hands. That is also the reason for the dust. My apologies
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 04:31 PM
Aprileon - at first I thought the cracking noise was you shifting your feet on creaking floorboards. "Hey man, stop doing that so we can hear the noise from the piano!!" But yeah, crackling like that is definitely not normal, I haven't heard of that issue before.

The other issue Marcus had with line-in. I haven't had anything like that on my NV-10. I just tried setting the line-in to +10db, with the hardware line-in knob that the NV-10 has to full, and master volume to full. I can hear a very slight buzz from the speakers if I put my ear against the speaker grill, but pressing the pedal (with damper noise off) absolutely doesn't result in any sound at all, it's entirely unaffected. On Marcus's NV-5, it almost sounds like the pedal deactivates some kind of noise gate...
Posted By: peterws Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by aprileon
HI,

thanks for the replays, I will contact my dealer.

The correct video urls are:

https://vimeo.com/544483016
https://vimeo.com/544482914

Don't get me wrong - I love the instrument, I have never played a digital piano before where I completely forgot that it is sample based. You can hear it when you are very very attentive, but that is not the point for me. Important is that it sounds absolutely great, very spatial, and is super responsive, somehow alive. However, my model feels quite "beta". There have been other glitches took.

Interestingly, the problem seems to be related to the long pause (over a month not switched on) due to a problem with my hands. That is also the reason for the dust. My apologies

That noise (i couldn't discern on first hearing) was nothing like what I had. Mine sounded like the very Devil had got in there . . .screeching, tortured sound which totally obliterated the music.
Posted By: Zanoni Re: Another sound issue with Kawai NV5 - 05/03/21 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
So much dust. shocked

+1
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