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Posted By: Tenor1 Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/17/21 06:53 PM
I have a NV5 on hold and now a NV10 is available. Has anyone tried both and how do they compare? I've only tried the NV5 and like it very much except the upright action part. Unfortunately, the NV10 is in a different location, so I can't A/B them. Does the NV10 sound as good?
Posted By: Osho Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/17/21 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by Tenor1
I've only tried the NV5 and like it very much except the upright action part.

Then I think you will be very happy with NV10 or NV10S.

Osho
Posted By: TonyDIGITAL Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/17/21 09:15 PM
It will be hard if one does have to choose I guess - NV5 for sound board and NV10 for grand action: see details here on Merriam Piano NV5 vs NV10 according to Stu Harrison
Posted By: Tenor1 Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/17/21 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by TonyDIGITAL
It will be hard if one does have to choose I guess - NV5 for sound board and NV10 for grand action: see details here on Merriam Piano NV5 vs NV10 according to Stu Harrison

Wish there was a hybrid of the two of them.
Posted By: TonyDIGITAL Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 12:01 AM
Originally Posted by Tenor1
Wish there was a hybrid of the two of them.
Same here, "luckily" I don't have to make a decision at the moment due to my still low play level.
Let's hope Kawai currently "separates" the sound board feature only to "test the water" since the market for hybrid is still young...
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 12:51 AM
Perhaps I (we?) should wait for the NV11? smile

Hey Pete14: Will the NV11 have a soundboard?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Perhaps I (we?) should wait for the NV11? smile

Hey Pete14: Will the NV11 have a soundboard?

Yes, but keep in mind it’s called the NV20 (confirmed by James). grin
Posted By: Kawai James Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 02:00 AM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Yes, but keep in mind it’s called the NV20 (confirmed by James). grin

I don't recall confirming anything. wink

I just suggested that if a larger NV instrument was to be developed, it would likely have a model number divisible by 5.

Cheers,
James
x
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 10:13 AM
The obvious differences are:

  • size
  • aesthetics (NV5 looks like a small but "complete" piano from all sides, unlike NV10)
  • upright action vs grand action
  • speaker system


Less obvious differences:

  • "waiting for NV5" probably means NV5S (latest sound engine), while "NV10 in stock" probably means old stock (previous sound engine and touchscreen module).


If you play with headphones mostly and dislike the upright action, then clearly go for the NV10.
Posted By: EVC2017 Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 11:13 AM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Perhaps I (we?) should wait for the NV11? smile

Hey Pete14: Will the NV11 have a soundboard?

More importantly, what will be the pivot length? 3hearts
Posted By: Tenor1 Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by pppianomarc
The obvious differences are:

  • size
  • aesthetics (NV5 looks like a small but "complete" piano from all sides, unlike NV10)
  • upright action vs grand action
  • speaker system


Less obvious differences:

  • "waiting for NV5" probably means NV5S (latest sound engine), while "NV10 in stock" probably means old stock (previous sound engine and touchscreen module).


If you play with headphones mostly and dislike the upright action, then clearly go for the NV10.

I do play mostly through headphones and it is the upright piano action I'm most concerned about. It seems the NV10 would be better. I'm going to study the thread on what the differences are between the NV10 and NV10s.
Posted By: Gombessa Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 04:47 PM
Tenor1, if you're still deciding between these, I think it makes absolutely sense to go out of your way to the extent possible to compare the new S versions against the originals...this is a big purchase and well worth feeling like you've made the right decision.
Posted By: Tenor1 Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Tenor1, if you're still deciding between these, I think it makes absolutely sense to go out of your way to the extent possible to compare the new S versions against the originals...this is a big purchase and well worth feeling like you've made the right decision.


OOOH I wish that could be possible, but alas I don't think I can wait. This is a replacement of a water-damaged piano. If I wait for the shop to get any NVs models I must take a depreciation on the value of the damaged piano. It would be significant in the amount of money, which adds to the cost of the new instrument. I can get the current models of the NV5 and NV10 at a reduced cost purchasing now. It would be a cost difference of almost $8,000 to wait.
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 05:16 PM
I don't understand. Your old piano is junked, is that right?

Was it insured? If so, get your insurance check ... and spend the money whenever you please, wherever you please, on whatever you please.

Or am I missing something?
Posted By: Tenor1 Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I don't understand. Your old piano is junked, is that right?

Was it insured? If so, get your insurance check ... and spend the money whenever you please, wherever you please, on whatever you please.

Or am I missing something?

Yes the piano is junked, but we were told that we had to replace it. If we didn't then the depreciation comes into play. I thought we would get a check for the replacement and then there wouldn't be so much pressure on replacement when inventory is so scarce. It doesn't make sense to me and I'm still awaiting the call from the adjustor. The Casio was two-years-old and the policy is for full replacement. I put money down on the available NV5 and now there is a NV10 to consider. That's why I've asked if people who have tried both instruments for opinions.

There is going to be a charge to remove the old piano, but I intend to keep the bench.
Posted By: vagfilm Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 06:45 PM
The sound difference of NV10 to NV10s does not probably justify the price difference of 8k of loosing insurance depreciation (particularly through headphones). If you have the opportunity between readily available nv5 or nv10, hit the road, try them, and take one home before they fly off the shelf (and do not write here the name of the dealer before you have signed, or Mac^3 will drive to california and snatch it from the shop... 😊
Posted By: Tyr Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by Tenor1
That's why I've asked if people who have tried both instruments for opinions.

I had a NV10 and have a NV5 for nearly two years. My NV10 had several issues that might have been fixed in the newer Version. The only thing i miss from the NV10 is the form factor. It's a stylish instrument. I don't mind that the NV5 has an upright action. Both are perfectly playable.
Posted By: Tenor1 Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/18/21 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by Tenor1
That's why I've asked if people who have tried both instruments for opinions.

I had a NV10 and have a NV5 for nearly two years. My NV10 had several issues that might have been fixed in the newer Version. The only thing i miss from the NV10 is the form factor. It's a stylish instrument. I don't mind that the NV5 has an upright action. Both are perfectly playable.

Thanks and I going with the NV5.
Posted By: Zanoni Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/19/21 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by Tenor1
Originally Posted by Tyr
Originally Posted by Tenor1
That's why I've asked if people who have tried both instruments for opinions.

I had a NV10 and have a NV5 for nearly two years. My NV10 had several issues that might have been fixed in the newer Version. The only thing i miss from the NV10 is the form factor. It's a stylish instrument. I don't mind that the NV5 has an upright action. Both are perfectly playable.

Thanks and I going with the NV5.

Just try that NV-10 for yourself, and thén make up your mind. Relying on some one else their opions makes you like a leaf in the wind. One wind blows you in the direction of a Yamaha Avantgrand N1-X another one to a Kawai Novus NV-10 and then back again to the NV-5. What do YOU want?
Posted By: MacMacMac Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/19/21 01:58 PM
Wise words.
Originally Posted by Zanoni
Just try that NV-10 for yourself, and thén make up your mind. Relying on some one else their opinions makes you like a leaf in the wind. One wind blows you in the direction of a Yamaha Avantgrand N1-X another one to a Kawai Novus NV-10 and then back again to the NV-5. What do YOU want?
Posted By: MBiG Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/19/21 04:36 PM
Dito ......
but that's the dilemma, or should I say "curse and blessing" (German expression) of every forum, not just the one here.
Posted By: EugeneJenia Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/20/21 11:00 AM
Funny experience of my own about Novus series.
I was in Kawai showroom yesterday and tried by NV5s and NV10s by myself. Btw I am owner of CA99 and was thinking about switch to NV5s. So I tried NV5s and was totally disapointed about keyboard after CA99. And the funny thing is that Kawai made immitation of grand mechanic (I mean grand feel 3) so well, that it's more enjoyable to play on it instead of real upright mechanic of NV5s. I told that to consultant in showroom and he told me that that opinion shares professional pianists, who comparied those instruments.
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/20/21 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by EugeneJenia
And the funny thing is that Kawai made immitation of grand mechanic (I mean grand feel 3) so well, that it's more enjoyable to play on it instead of real upright mechanic of NV5s.

The priority of the NV5/NV10 action is to be realistic. It can only ever be as enjoyable to play as a real acoustic action is.

Digital actions have different priorities. Yes, realism is one of them, but it only needs to be "good enough". Basically at the level of ticking checkboxes: hammers, graded, escapement simulation, wood (!?). Enjoyable to play, best if noticable in the first few minutes in a piano shop, is certainly a very big priority, and of course price.
Posted By: EugeneJenia Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/20/21 12:14 PM
Under enjoyable I mean feelings as close as possible to grand millenim action on real kawai grands. For me it is standart for any mechanics - doesn't matter is it upright action of acoustic/hybrid or digital instrument with immitation.
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/20/21 12:14 PM
Originally Posted by EugeneJenia
I told that to consultant in showroom and he told me that that opinion shares professional pianists, who comparied those instruments.

I can assure you that-that opinion is not shared by professional pianists who compared those-those instruments.

This is called ‘consultant BS’; which is a commonly used tactic in where the consultant agrees with the customer on everything in order to establish a phony sense of congeniality.

If you don’t believe me, go back in there and tell him that your favorite colour is blue, and guess what his favorite colour will be? You guessed it, blue!

Now, that is not to say that your preference of the CA99 over the N5V is not valid, but it does not necessarily extend to the vast community of pianists.
Posted By: EugeneJenia Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/20/21 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
Originally Posted by EugeneJenia
I told that to consultant in showroom and he told me that that opinion shares professional pianists, who comparied those instruments.

I can assure you that-that opinion is not shared by professional pianists who compared those-those instruments.

This is called ‘consultant BS’; which is a commonly used tactic in where the consultant agrees with the customer on everything in order to establish a phony sense of congeniality.

If you don’t believe me, go back in there and tell him that your favorite colour is blue, and guess what his favorite colour will be? You guessed it, blue!

Don't think so. It doesn't make sense, because I came there and said that I want to change my CA99 on NV5S. There's just no point for any consultant to agree with opinion about my experience with GF3 compared to NV5S action, when potentional client wants to buy their product which is x2 more expensive.
Posted By: pppianomarc Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/20/21 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by EugeneJenia
Under enjoyable I mean feelings as close as possible to grand millenim action on real kawai grands.

My main complaint about digital actions is "upweight". Play a piece with dense chords (4 or all 5 fingers down, best if in both hands). Play the piece very slowly, holding each chord for 2 seconds with your fingers. To me it feels as if the (digital) keys are constantly fighting back against my fingers. I'm loosing notes after a second of holding them down, except when I conciously tense (!) my fingers throughout the whole piece.

On a "real" action, I can use inertia, combined with a short moment of tension in the fingers, to bring the keys down, and little more than gravity to keep them down.

It's been a long time since I tried a GF action (GF2 in my case). Maybe it fares better than others in this test?
Posted By: Pete14 Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/20/21 12:41 PM
It could be that he doesn’t have an NV5(S) in stock, and one bird in hand is better than two birds in the air?

Now, let’s assume that his favorite colour is indeed blue (just like yours), and that ‘he’, too, prefers the CA99 over the NV5(S); it is still a bit of a stretch to say that this is shared by professional pianists who compared those instruments; unless he can produce a document proving that ‘all’ professional pianists concurred on the CA99.

And I’m talking about verified signatures of the aforementioned professionals coupled with explicit not implied statements supporting his claim.
Posted By: EugeneJenia Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/20/21 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by Pete14
It could be that he doesn’t have an NV5(S) in stock, and one bird in hand is better than two birds in the air?

Now, let’s assume that his favorite colour is indeed blue (just like yours), and that ‘he’, too, prefers the CA99 over the NV5(S); it is still a bit of a stretch to say that this is shared by professional pianists who compared those instruments; unless he can produce a document proving that ‘all’ professional pianists concurred on the CA99.

And I’m talking about verified signatures of the aforementioned professionals coupled with explicit not implied statements supporting his claim.


Don't want to participate this kind of theories. Only facts - it is official Kawai show room, and they don't sell instruments there, they just show them (all of them including real concert grands). NV5s was there and it was available for test. In that showroom often piano concerts and masterclasses are held, so there are a lot of pianists (including professionals) who test and play on those. So those are sharing their feelings about instruments.
I never mentioned that consultant told that "all" pianists said that, only those who played on those instruments.
Beside this, it doesn't matter - the main idea is that TS can test GF3 with CA99 too if he looking for soundboard + grand piano actions experience.
Posted By: pianogabe Re: Kawai NV5 Or NV10? - 09/20/21 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by pppianomarc
My main complaint about digital actions is "upweight". Play a piece with dense chords (4 or all 5 fingers down, best if in both hands). Play the piece very slowly, holding each chord for 2 seconds with your fingers. To me it feels as if the (digital) keys are constantly fighting back against my fingers. I'm loosing notes after a second of holding them down, except when I conciously tense (!) my fingers throughout the whole piece.

On a "real" action, I can use inertia, combined with a short moment of tension in the fingers, to bring the keys down, and little more than gravity to keep them down.

I had a CA58 with a GFC action and what you are describing is exactly the reason for me to switch to an (upright) acoustic action. The inability to hold keys down with almost relaxed fingers. It may be worse on a GFC as compared to GF2 or 3 because the keys are bit shorter, making this effect even more pronounced near the fall board.
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