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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
You often assume what's hard for you must be equally hard for everyone else....

I don't.
If you go back and read carefully what I said, you'll see.
You said:
"I was going to comment on that too, if Carey hadn't first.

It isn't merely "relatively" what you said.
It's very hard technically.

The "relatively" applies only if, well, if you're not counting the hard parts. ha

And really we come across that a fair amount when people talk about how hard a piece is. Like, what about the D-flat major Nocturne? It's not that hard..... well, except for that one place. grin

I've often played the Fantaisie at the same time that I was playing the F minor Ballade, and to me they're comparably difficult -- the Fantaisie is just about as hard technically.
And the Fantaisie is "scarier," because unlike the Ballade, there are places where because of the technical difficulty you can go straight to he11 (the octave-leaping-in-opposite-directions parts and the jagged triplets parts). In the Ballade, you only fall on your face."

And then later:
"I feel like asking "How adventurously did you play them?" but let's not get personal. ha
So, I'll just say:

It depends how one plays them.
Often those passages are played in a way that I would call tame, careful -- taking as much time as needed to make sure you get those octaves that are at the outer margins, especially the last one. And then, sure, it's not that hard.

I think they should sort of explode. And that's when they become hard, and perhaps terrifying, like a highwire without a safety net.And then, well, I would be surprised if they're not hard for virtually everybody."

I think almost anyone reading those posts would agree with me about your assuming what's difficult for you must be equally difficult for everyone else.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 08/09/21 07:37 AM.
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Originally Posted by Carey
Perhaps we can start fresh and be friends. I'd like that. thumb

Thank you, I would too.

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Okay, great implies scale and inspiration, and work implies opus #, so it's pretty straightforward for me:

Op. 10, Etudes
Op. 11, Concerto no. 1
Op. 21, Concerto no. 2
Op. 23, Ballade no. 1
Op. 25, Etudes
Op. 28, Preludes
Op. 31, Scherzo no. 2
Op. 38, Ballade no. 2
Op. 35, Sonata no. 2
Op. 58, Sonata no. 3

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Originally Posted by parapiano
Originally Posted by Carey
Perhaps we can start fresh and be friends. I'd like that. thumb

Thank you, I would too.

thumb thumb thumb


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Re plover's post:

I do think it's correct that for the very great majority of pianists, the Fantaisie is among Chopin's most difficult works, and that for the great majority of people who say it isn't, it's connected to one of those things I said (plus sometimes it's people who haven't really tried to bring it up to performance level and aren't really aware of the major difficulties).

I also allowed that there are some people for whom this isn't so, and/or for whom it isn't highly challenging regardless of where it ranks for them among Chopin's works. I can imagine that there are some pianists for whom almost none of Chopin's works are highly challenging technically.

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I like to be specific about things like challenges and difficulties. Pianists know what things are found to be difficult and challenging for many of us. I think we know how to describe them. I described the ones I find in Opus 52. I don't find it a difficult challenge to name what they are and even where they are whether by passage or measures. I think it's helpful to our personal understanding plus being understood by others.

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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Re plover's post:

I do think it's correct that for the very great majority of pianists, the Fantaisie is among Chopin's most difficult works, and that for the great majority of people who say it isn't, it's connected to one of those things I said (plus sometimes it's people who haven't really tried to bring it up to performance level and aren't really aware of the major difficulties).

I also allowed that there are some people for whom this isn't so, and/or for whom it isn't highly challenging regardless of where it ranks for them among Chopin's works. I can imagine that there are some pianists for whom almost none of Chopin's works are highly challenging technically.
Doubling or tripling down. What a contrast with Carey who basically apologized to parapiano for the same comments.

No one's saying the Fantasie is some easy piece, but you shouldn't assume what's difficult for you or even most pianists is as difficult for parapiano. You've only backtracked a little on that idea a little since your first comment.

You must be aware that many pianists, I'd guess those at the level of first year students at good conservatories can achieve a higher level of technical mastery of the Fantasie after a month or even a few weeks work than you have after many years. You must be aware that performance level is different for different people and what's performance level for you is actually less(not more)than what would be acceptable performance level for more advanced pianists. When you say that some people say the Fantasie is not so hard because they are not aware of its difficulties that's basically saying you know more about the piece and that's the reason others mistakenly say it's not so hard.

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re the above post:

Much of what it says isn't so.

But indeed I am doubling and tripling down. grin

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Originally Posted by Mark_C
re the above post:

Much of what it says isn't so.

But indeed I am doubling and tripling down. grin
Welp. Could you be specific about which much isn't so and what part is? I think "indeed doubling and tripling down' is revealing (priorities).

And please let's get specific about your problems with the Fantasy. We know about the octaves (which are a recognized problem because they end in leaps to destinations that have to be nailed with complete security. We know about the triplets groups in the contrasting 'harsh' episodes that don't fit your hand well. So what else.

I offered a list for Op. 52, and I could do so for the other big works. I'm not persuaded you can or are interested, maybe because you have other priorities. I'm sorry if I'm right. I really do like discussing the music, not having a superior opinion, and I think it's fun. I'd prefer stick to ideas that are more factual, like what difficulties, why, and where.

Hmm, I could be reading more into this here than I should if it's only a matter of history between you and pianoloverusa. That much is obvious to me, but on the other hand you certainly haven't addressed me or the specific questions I've asked.

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I did say, in this post and this post.

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Originally Posted by Mark_C
I did say, in this post and this post.

No you didn't. All you mention are the manytimes aforementioned octave leaps and what are for you the awkward triplets there. That's all.

All your grinning tells me, in addition to your posture, that you're just not serious. I guess this is a game or joke to you. I don't think so, that's not what I'm here for, and I'm not interested.

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I don't know what you're angling for, or why you doubt that those are indeed the things that I mean.

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