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Two note arpeggio?

So I'm looking at some sheet music that shows a B-flat just under middle C, and the C on the second space of the bass clef, directly above each other and with that arpeggio squiggle beside them.

Duh?

I don't know what to do with an arpeggio that has only two notes in it. Hit everything in between? Just hit the two listed notes? Something else? Is it even an arpeggio or is that squiggle supposed to mean something different in this context?
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
We got both kinds of music: Country and Western!
Casio Celviano AP-650
P

Re: Two note arpeggio?

You should post a picture of the passage in question to make the context clearer, but it sounds like it is indeed an arpeggio marking, which would mean you would hit those two notes in rapid succession.
Regards,

Polyphonist
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B

Re: Two note arpeggio?

Yes, you play arpeggiated ("rolled") chords by spreading the notes from the bottom up.

In your case, play the lower note just before the upper.

They are used by composers for special effects, sometimes to imitate the effect of a harp, or to give extra prominence to the chord, or to the top note of the chord.

Of course, sometimes the performer has no choice but to arpeggiate chords even if they aren't indicated as such, simply because he cannot stretch sufficiently to encompass the whole chord. And sometimes, composers don't even bother to indicate gigantic chords such, because it's taken for granted that the performer will arpeggiate the chord.
If music be the food of love, play on!
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Re: Two note arpeggio?

FrankCox
Originally Posted by FrankCox
So I'm looking at some sheet music that shows a B-flat just under middle C, and the C on the second space of the bass clef, directly above each other and with that arpeggio squiggle beside them.
Is it even an arpeggio or is that squiggle supposed to mean something different in this context?


Less than an octave...I would suspect a trill. But that is usually notated differently than you describe.
Will do some R&B for a while. Give the classical a break.
You can spend the rest of your life looking for music on a sheet of paper. You'll never find it, because it just ain't there. - Me Myself
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F

Re: Two note arpeggio?

[Linked Image]

Incidentally, is it no longer possible to upload pictures directly to this forum? There used to be a link on the side of the page with instructions, and that's gone (or at least I can't see it) and running "pianoworld.com upload pictures" through google takes me here, which doesn't actually work -- after uploading the picture I get a 404.

Anyway, now you can see the section that I'm wondering about. I guess it's an arpeggio but I've never seen one with only two notes in it before, unless it's supposed to be continuous from the bass clef through to the top of the treble, i.e. a 5-note arpeggio?
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
We got both kinds of music: Country and Western!
Casio Celviano AP-650
G

Re: Two note arpeggio?

Originally Posted by FrankCox
... I guess it's an arpeggio but I've never seen one with only two notes in it before, unless it's supposed to be continuous from the bass clef through to the top of the treble, i.e. a 5-note arpeggio?

If this were the case I would expect the arpeggio symbol to be continuous through both clefs. As it is a separate symbol for each clef I would treat it as LH and RH both starting and ending at the same time. Or experimenting to see what sounds the cleanest, or best to you when syncing LH with RH, but still starting both hands together. What i'd do, but could be wrong.
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Re: Two note arpeggio?

The fact that there's a gap between the marks in the bas and treble staves makes no difference. Play all 5 notes as a broken chord from the bottom (C below middle C) to the top C (C above middle C).
The English may not like music much, but they love the sound it makes ... Beecham
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Re: Two note arpeggio?

FrankCox
Now it looks like an arpeggio. The two lowest notes might be played as a separate arpeggio with it's own note values and timing, and the top arpeggio starting at the same time and using it's own note values.
And using the sustain pedal is my guess.
Try it on for size and see if it makes sense, and sounds right with what has been played before this point.
Last edited by RaggedKeyPresser; 10/01/17 05:20 AM.
Will do some R&B for a while. Give the classical a break.
You can spend the rest of your life looking for music on a sheet of paper. You'll never find it, because it just ain't there. - Me Myself
N

Re: Two note arpeggio?

Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser
Now it looks like an arpeggio. The two lowest notes might be played as a separate arpeggio with it's own note values and timing, and the top arpeggio starting at the same time and using it's own note values.
.
If this is an extraction from a jazz tune (as it looks) , then the sound will be not in style.
F

Re: Two note arpeggio?

RaggedKeyPresser
Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser
Now it looks like an arpeggio. The two lowest notes might be played as a separate arpeggio with it's own note values and timing, and the top arpeggio starting at the same time and using it's own note values.
And using the sustain pedal is my guess.
Try it on for size and see if it makes sense, and sounds right with what has been played before this point.


If that's what the composer intended he would have written out the exact relationship between the two notes in the left hand and the three in the right.

You're making one of the most common embellishments much more complicated than it actually is - and for what it's worth it's a C7 chord with added minor 6th - definitely jazz orientated. (I assume that the little bass notes are those played on a bass or bass guitar). Technically it's an unfinished suspension of a perfect cadence (ie the F major chord is absent).
The English may not like music much, but they love the sound it makes ... Beecham
R

Re: Two note arpeggio?

Nahum
Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser
Now it looks like an arpeggio. The two lowest notes might be played as a separate arpeggio with it's own note values and timing, and the top arpeggio starting at the same time and using it's own note values.
.
If this is an extraction from a jazz tune (as it looks) , then the sound will be not in style.


I just played through it (with a Bb in the LH at the start).
And yes. Starting a separate arpeggio in both hands won't work. Too thin sounding.
A continuous arpeggio, starting with the lowest note in the LH does work though.
Slow tempo and sustain pedal.

Annotation fault in sheet music. Should be a continuous squiggle from bottom to top.
Will do some R&B for a while. Give the classical a break.
You can spend the rest of your life looking for music on a sheet of paper. You'll never find it, because it just ain't there. - Me Myself
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Re: Two note arpeggio?

That means you roll the chord, and since the squiggly line in Bass clef is not connected to the one in the Treble clef, you are you roll LH & RH simultaneously, rather than LH to RH or RH down to LH.

edited to add: I played it this way and it sounds fine. By rolling LH & RH simultaneously, you get a richer chord since you can hear more of the notes together. Rolling from LH to RH (not as notated) causes you to hear each individual note, but the chord itself get lost - it's a thinner sound.

I'd listen to professional recordings if you can find any, play it both ways, consider that possibility that it is notated exactly how they wanted it played, and then decide for yourself from that information which one suits your playing best.
Last edited by Morodiene; 10/01/17 01:01 PM.
private piano/voice teacher FT

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I

Re: Two note arpeggio?

This thing is called "arpeggiato". I absolutely love this technique. To such extent that sometimes I use it excessively. Using arpeggiato you can make a chord sound like it's played on a guitar, or on a harp. You can make a chord sound harsh when played quickly with force or make it sound very naive when played softly. Your life will never be the same after having learned arpeggiato.
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Re: Two note arpeggio?

Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
This thing is called "arpeggiato". I absolutely love this technique. To such extent that sometimes I use it excessively....


Moderation is key. Rolled chords may provide a fuller sound but over use can sound too showy and not as clean a sound, imo. Used lightly and only in suitable pieces can be most effective, agreed.

At any rate, this is an "arpeggiato" as you say chord with the notes played tightly together on a single beat vs. arpeggios that may span several beats, the entire measure or more. This type is also common and is used regularly in accompaniment without having the same adverse effect. i think.
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Re: Two note arpeggio?

Morodiene
Originally Posted by Morodiene
That means you roll the chord, and since the squiggly line in Bass clef is not connected to the one in the Treble clef, you are you roll LH & RH simultaneously, rather than LH to RH or RH down to LH.

edited to add: I played it this way and it sounds fine. By rolling LH & RH simultaneously, you get a richer chord since you can hear more of the notes together. Rolling from LH to RH (not as notated) causes you to hear each individual note, but the chord itself get lost - it's a thinner sound.

I'd listen to professional recordings if you can find any, play it both ways, consider that possibility that it is notated exactly how they wanted it played, and then decide for yourself from that information which one suits your playing best.
Thanks for giving the correct information. wink

Composer are not always totally specific about rolling chords in both hands together or from the bottom to the top. But it is best to consider what is written first, then do it the other way if it sounds better.
Last edited by Gary D.; 10/03/17 04:07 AM.
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Re: Two note arpeggio?

Fareham
Originally Posted by Fareham
Originally Posted by RaggedKeyPresser
Now it looks like an arpeggio. The two lowest notes might be played as a separate arpeggio with it's own note values and timing, and the top arpeggio starting at the same time and using it's own note values.
And using the sustain pedal is my guess.
Try it on for size and see if it makes sense, and sounds right with what has been played before this point.


If that's what the composer intended he would have written out the exact relationship between the two notes in the left hand and the three in the right.

You're making one of the most common embellishments much more complicated than it actually is - and for what it's worth it's a C7 chord with added minor 6th - definitely jazz orientated. (I assume that the little bass notes are those played on a bass or bass guitar). Technically it's an unfinished suspension of a perfect cadence (ie the F major chord is absent).

Yes, the fragment has jazz flavour right from the start. And the important thing is how it sounds.
And somebody that is initiated into the jazz idiom will hear it for what it is.
Will do some R&B for a while. Give the classical a break.
You can spend the rest of your life looking for music on a sheet of paper. You'll never find it, because it just ain't there. - Me Myself
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Re: Two note arpeggio?

Originally Posted by Nahum
What's the most strange looking here?

[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/003Qqy7O5Yv7zaZM2[/img]

That's how it sounds in jazz (or near) :



- in 1: 24 (you can listen at a speed of 0.5) .

The traditions of the relationship to the printed music in classical music and in jazz are different.


To me #2 seems the most unusual.

In the recording @ 1:24, the pianist seems to do an arpeggio first in the RH involving a G# and then ending on an emphasized C# (I don't have perfect pitch and had to go into a different room to compare from tonal memory on my a bit out of tune acoustical piano).
Then immediately followed with an arpeggio in the LH at lower volume.
There are all kinds of ways to do it, depending on what you feel at the moment. What counts is the sound of it.
Will do some R&B for a while. Give the classical a break.
You can spend the rest of your life looking for music on a sheet of paper. You'll never find it, because it just ain't there. - Me Myself
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Re: Two note arpeggio?

Thanks for all of the input, folks. I feel a lot better informed now that I was before!

It's not jazz, though. wink

It's the tail-end of the intro for Don't Fence Me In. Most people don't realize that there's an intro to that song since many of the most famous recordings (Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Willie Nelson) omit that part.

And now I know how to play it. smile
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
We got both kinds of music: Country and Western!
Casio Celviano AP-650
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