Hi guys, I'm a beginner when it comes to this stuff. Please help guide me towards doing this in the best way.

I have a weighted Casio keyboard. I want to record my playing as MIDI (not as a waveform etc.) on a DAW (I'm using Ableton). I don't want to listen to my piano's own sound while recording; I want to hear it live through my computer with a VST. (I want to do this so that when I export the MIDI through the VST, it would sound the same as what I had played)

Currently, I am connecting a MIDI USB cable between my keyboard and my laptop. This allows me to use my keyboard as a MIDI controller and record MIDI. However, there is noticeable delay from when I play the notes to when I hear the sound through my headphones. I have ASIO4ALL installed. I've messed around with sample rates and buffer sizes and the lowest latency I could get was around 35 ms.

Based on everything, what is the best way to record live with a VST (I'm using Alicia's Keys)? Do I need an audio interface?

Thanks in advance!

I never record with a VST. I record MIDI with the piano's sound, because any latency drives me bats. Then I play back the MIDI and if I want a different sound, I invoke it then. That said, I'm very pleased with the Kawai internal sounds, so I stopped messing with VSTs several years ago.

You can get lower latency than that, but I'm a Mac user, so I can't help. Others will certainly chime in to help you.

This is a topic that recurs a lot on this forum, and it can drive people nuts. Using asio drivers is a first very sensible step, and should enable you to get much lower latencies that that. On my computer, an older i5 laptop, using internal sound hardware and ASIO4ALL drivers, the latency of the VST sound overall is +9 ms with respect to that of the DP sound. That is with a buffer of 1.5 ms (64 samples). My DAW reports in that case a 6.6 round trip latency. An external sound interface (Focusrite 2i2) with its own asio drivers shaves 2 ms off the 9.

If you can borrow an external sound device from someone, that would be my first step.

To start:

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207355205-Optimising-your-PC-for-Audio-on-Windows-10

On my own computer, Intel i5 CPU, with Pianoteq:

. . . Run "high performance" mode;
. . . disable the WiFi adapter;
. . . Use ASIO4ALL;
. . . Minimize Pianoteq (to eliminate the graphics load of the keys on the
. . . . . . virtual keyboard).

With those things done, it works pretty well.


That's a pretty good idea. Certainly worth trying.

Just double checking: your headphones are cable connected to the laptop output, correct? Wireless headphones may have massive latencies.

Almost certainly, yes. You haven't mentioned which computer you have, and this could vary depending on what sound card your computer has, but typically, standard standard sound circuitry is not capable of latency as low as you'd get from an interface. It may be the biggest reason people buy interfaces to begin with. It's why I use an interface with my Surface Pro, though I don't need one with my Mac.

anotherscott, have you measured the difference with your Surface Pro, and with and without audio interface? I said the same thing as you in a different thread a week ago, but then others said there was little difference between with and without audio interface, as long as you use ASIO. I didn't believe this so I tested it on my own laptop, with and without interface (focusrite 2i2), and the difference was consistent, but only small: with interface this was only 2 ms faster on an overall latency of ~10ms (with respect to DP sound). ( https://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthr...n-basic-audio-interface.html#Post3062860).

I actually removed my interface now to minimize cables etc at my piano. The only disadvantage is that the ASIO4ALL drivers will just take sound from 1 source. So if you play your piano, you can not play a youtube video with sound at the same time, or have skype lessons.

However, I think this might play out differently on different hardware, so I am really curious what your Surface Pro does without audio interface.

Download dpc latency checker. at each step of your configuration make sure what ever you did doesn't increase the dpc latency.

LatencyMon https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon indicate which drivers impact the most the latency. DPC checker only gives you the history of the measured DPC times then you can’t spot the culprit without making a configuration step by step.

One issue is, when the culprit is a system driver, users can't do much about it.

Interesting. No, I have not measured. I only know that I felt a bit of a lag with the headphone out, which went away when I used the interface. I don't think I made any other change, but especially considering how I need to grope my way around when configuring things on Windows, I can't swear to it.

If this is s NVidia graphic card, you can switch it to an AMD... and hopes it will help. But there are some times when the solutions are rare.

Or just disable the GPU while using real-time audio. Trouble is, lately the cause in laptops is often in power and heat management systems, which are there to keep them from self-ignition.

Or just get rid of the laptop. Compared to a desktop, laptops range from inferior to atrocious.

Laptops are "pay more, get less". They stink.
Aside from the audio problems ... they have monstrously higher failure rates.

So get a desktop and shed your audio problems. And at the same time you'll shed less money.

On that note I am also having some laptop issues enough thought of using a desktop but the Ergonomics of having a desktop on sitting atop the piano don't work well for me..... is there a way to use an android tablet as the only monitor for a desktop? In other words that way I could hide the desktop on the floor and use the android tablet when using pianoteq, as a touchscreen...

Look for a recent post by Navindra describing his setup. He used a Raspberry Pi with VNC and controlled by a tablet (android IIRC) but the concept could work with a x86 desktop as well, though it may require some work.

The problem is "some work". I can do plug and play, but if there isn't a really straightforward easy to follow solution I'll get lost!

https://www.neweggbusiness.com/smartbuyer/over-easy/how-to-use-your-tablet-as-a-second-monitor/

These four are fairly straight forward.

I am still curious, have you tried to identify the sources of latency in your laptop with latencymon? It may be the least worksome way to achieve a satisfactory VST system. Or buy a Mac.

This page seems to offer a "cookbook", recipe type procedure for Abelton. Should be pretty easy.
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/a...w-the-latency-of-a-plugin-or-Live-device

Also, a gentle reminder. When asking for technical help, always give complete details on the equipment you're working with. You mentioned you have a Casio keyboard with weighted keys-there could be 10 models out there.

See if the Abelton folks can help, usually a phone call will be required as well as a recent registration of purchase.