Hello all; new member here.

I currently have a white Young Chang 5'2" baby grand that I purchased back in '95. I've been toying w/ the idea of trading up to a new piano lately and, on a whim, went back to the original dealer to see what he could do on a trade in.

I was particularly interested in either the Petrof V or the Yamaha C1 and was pleasantly surprised when my dealer offered me the full purchase price back on my YC. I suspect this is a result of him being a bit conservative on his discount off full retail.

The price offered on the Petrof is $19k while the Yamaha is $18k; both are polished ebony. Clearly to my ear the Petrof was much "warmer" sounding and the action seemed a bit better. I also noticed that the keys on the Petrof appeared less slippery and had a satin sheen to them while the Yamaha keys were a bit glossy/slippery.

The dealer made reference to the fact that Petrof is having distribution problems here in the US as they attempt to go a bit more upscale in their pricing. In light of the foregoing he has chosen to discontinue the handling of this line and seemed a bit reluctant to discount this unit any more than the $19k he originally quoted. My gut feeling, however, is he'd be willing to do a little bit better on the price of the C1.

I've played both and, in truth, I could be happy w/ either. I don't play nearly as much as I used to but but perhaps a new piano will change that as I've never been a big fan of the YC tone or action.

I've done searches on Petrof and have found conflicting info in regards to their quality. Yamaha, on the other hand, seems to be a safe purchase as it holds it's value relatively well and seems to be well made.

Would anyone care to weigh in on their respective opinions of these two instruments? Is it true that Geneva Intl. will no longer be the distributor of Petrof here in the US and future sales may go directly through Petrof itself? Finally what's the consensus on the "new" Detoa action vs. the previous Renner unit? Is one more desirable than the other?

Thank you in advance.

I think you're right that the dealer is being conservative, but the Petrof price is not outrageous either. And the dealer has been very forthright in describing the issues facing Petrof today. It seems to me that you are working with a good dealer. He is working hard to protect his selling price, but he's offering you full trade-in on a piano that is hardly the most desirable used instrument on the market.

If you like that Petrof better (and I'm quite sure that I would), I suggest you call or send an e-mail to Geneva International. They are the distributor whose warranty and support you would depend on going forward. Tell them about your concern and ask them what reassurance they can offer you.

Pianos: pianos@geneva-intl.com

Toll-Free: (800) 533-2388

Regarding the action, Renner would be plus, but original Petrof is not a drawback.

I heard that Geneva is no longer Petrof´s distributor. The new one should
be Petrof USA,LLC (as Petrof states on their web).
http://www.petrof.com/usa.html

The price for the Petrof seems a bit high in today's environment, but since you are getting a good trade-in, it's probably fair. I recall a regular dealer a year ago offering a V for $17K.

The Petrof seems to be a truly higher end piano selling at a mid-range price. I agree that the Detoa action could be a cause for concern (especially the long term reliability), but it seems that Detoa has been doing a good job in making solid actions.

BTW, almost a year ago, I purchased a Petrof IV for about $14K (I am hoping that the new distributor would honor any warranty work.) It seemed like a such a good deal that I wondered if I had gotten a counterfeit (and reading about the Petrof company making a news announcement about such counterfeits did not ease me feelings!) But I came to the conclustion that my fingers and ears told me that I had gotten a real deal (it's still in storage as I have not finished building a new home.)

Bingo!

If convenience is an issue, i.e. you don't want two pianos until you sell the older one, then having a dealer take it off your hands makes some sense. But a dealer is not going to do you any monetary favors with a trade in. They have a bottom line. Money as discount and money as trade in are perfectly fungible.

The best thing to do (or have done) is to negotiate your best price before mentioning any trade in. Then you will be quoted the true value on your old piano. And then you can decide whether to sell it to the dealer for cash, sell it on consignment, or sell it privately.

I'm not fully versed in current Petrof pricing, but I think you are right that there is still some give in that price, and perhaps quite a bit of give. If I'm not mistaken, larger Petrofs are going for that price. In my area a model III was bought for not too much more than that with a trade in.

I went to another dealer yesterday and, again, the Petrof clearly seems to have more appeal to me though the C1 is not nearly as "bright" as I would have expected. I've contacted GI in regards to the distribution issue and have yet to hear back from them. I'm not sure why they would reply, frankly, as my understanding is they no longer handle Petrof as of 12/07 so they really have no vested interest in my purchase.

I've emailed the new CEO of Petrof USA and he responded last evening in form letter-type fashion. He really didn't address my concerns and made mention that his staff would be unavailable to answer questions over the next few days as a result of NAMM. He did, however, provide me w/ his cell number if I required clarification.

In truth this whole distribution issue is making me a bit uncomfortable.

To further complicate my decision it would appear that Yamaha has changed a few things on the C1 recently and is now marketing this line as the "Enhanced" Conservatory Series. I have not yet seen these newer Yamaha's at my dealer and I'm not sure as to whether these changes constitute seeking them out, specifically, should I in fact decide to go w/ the C1.

I appreciate your input.

They may no longer handle Petrof, but it is almost certain that any new Petrof you see on a showroom floor in the US was distributed by them and offers their warranty. As such, I would think that a reply to your inquiry is appropriate.

Why don't you call the 800 number and see if anyone answers.

New C1's and C2's will have Ivorite key-tops and vertically laminated bridges like the C3's and larger. This upgrade is on the newest ones being shipped now.

This NAMM show (this weekend) will be pivotal for Petrof in the U.S. New dealerships, parts distribution and warehousing, warranty responsibilities, and retail pricing will be ironed out there. My advise is to wait a couple of months and check things out after the dust had settled. Of course expect higher prices on all goods shipped after Feb.1.

Here is Petrof's interpretation of the Illinois court's ruling regarding their contract with GIC. This was first posted on the Petrof website two days ago.

http://www.petrof.cz/clanky-2320.html