Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Grotrian Steinweg G124 (maybe G132) vs. August Förster 125

I just had the chance today to play a Sauter 130 Masterclass again. The piano's sound is incredibly refined. The action is truly flawless. I also had the opportunity to play a Schimmel K125. It sounds more vibrant, but less refined, less polished. I couldn't decide which is more beautiful. But the Sauter MC 130 is more fascinating. You hear it's sound and you need to hear it again because it's so distinguished. It also has more warmth. The bass is absolutely not growly which fascinated me most. There's a lot of artistry in it. The treble is crystal clear. But the Schimmel K125 simply has a bit more life, more color. The most vibrant, but also overall the most "unrefined" (nitpicking, I know), is probably my current Schimmel 130T. Which isn't to say that it isn't my favorite of the three. It's alive, it plays with life. I like my 130T best in the treble; it's the most colorful, has the greatest range. Now I play mine at home in a small room, mounted against the wall. The Sauter MC130 and the Schimmel were positioned with their backs to another piano in a larger room. It's hard to say how they would sound in my space. The kinship between my current K125 and my 130T is absolute and very easy to hear. The tonal philosophy and the playing feel are quite similar. The Sauter is truly master-class. However, one would have to be willing to engage with it to some extent, because it's so perfected in every single note that one wonders if it isn't almost too perfect. Well, it still fascinates me. It would be interesting to hear it in a smaller room. I still think my Schimmel plays the loudest. I have to dampen it quite a bit in my room. I have Basotec panels behind the piano. Otherwise, it would be too much. Off the top of my head, I would say that the Sauter, with its refined character, would suit the room better, perhaps even without major modifications. Unfortunately, a Grotrian Steinweg wasn't available. They are very difficult to find in Germany these days. I briefly played a Kawai, and it still appeals to me the least, even though I generally like warm tones. It was too undefined for me. I stopped playing after just a few bars. I also tried a Yamaha (I think it was a U2 or U3). It was too bright, too "technical," although it's certainly a very good instrument. The Sauter was the warmest. Anyone who has the chance to play one should take it. A truly fascinating instrument. The Grotrian 124 is probably somewhere in the middle between the Schimmel and the Sauter upright. But as I said, the slightly more forward and less refined sound of the Schimmel K125 also has its appeal. In this class, you can't really speak of better or worse, and certainly not of good or bad. It's simply a matter of taste. It's great that there's this variety on the market and that both companies are still producing. Grotrian Steinweg, as the (perhaps for me) "golden mean," would have been interesting to consider. But they're all slowly selling out here too.

I'd like to play the Förster again soon. It certainly has a very distinctive sound. I imagine the Grotrian Steinweg, followed by the Sauter, represents the best (in the positive sense of the word) compromise and could provide long-lasting satisfaction.

Yes, about the Sauter Masterclass, though I only played the 122. To my sense, it's an incredibly expressive upright. What seems more impressive though, is just how much it's wonderfully "put togther". By that, I mean pianos when limited by size often have compromises, or even if not by size, then tonal philisophy and what-else. There are frequently trade offs. But the Masterclass, it seems to me to have all the parts so precisely integrated that the sum of the whole truly is greater than the parts. Sure, the bass is not the biggest as you might want in grands, the action is upright (sauter repetition), but it's so complete in and of itself as an instrument. By that I mean it's quite difficult to call out a flaw or a factor that lessens the instrument.

Check the Sauter Competence 130 with MC. These are all very well made pianos. It could save you a few thousand.( if you can do without the extra hardware, sostenuto pedal and special wood for the hammers. The prices in the UK are nearer compared to N America.

https://www.coachhousepianos.co.uk/product/sauter-competence-130-upright-piano/


https://www.coachhousepianos.co.uk/blog/piano-type/sauter/page/2/?utm_term&utm_campaign=NW%20%7C%20PMAX%20Shopping%20Upgraded&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=1996315173&hsa_cam=22318943475&hsa_grp&hsa_ad&hsa_src=x&hsa_tgt&hsa_kw&hsa_mt&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22769809162&gclid=CjwKCAiAwqHIBhAEEiwAx9cTeUddBVHvXT-NiIr-yi4lWgdQfhCLgxXCfAXkRvqWYx8_04grZRZ8QxoC8VcQAvD_BwE

Sorry the second link did not work

https://www.coachhousepianos.co.uk/product/sauter-master-class-130-upright-piano/

A rich German person has only to buy the company and use his own money to support and run the company like Mr Paulson did with Steinway.

I meant the prices in the UK and Europe are far nearer to each other in the UK and Europe. I visited the Sauter factory and it was very interesting to speak to Ulrich Sauter about these two models. I also visited the August Forster factory near Dresden. Both produce excellent grands but I preferred the Sauter uprights.

You mean Grotrian, perhaps Steinway should buy it?

A little feedback. Today in Nuremberg, I had the opportunity to play the August Förster 125 and the Sauter Meisterklasse (two of them in the showroom), as well as the Competence 130.

The owner was there himself. One of the two Meisterklasse 130 uprights was his own. It's five years old (and, incidentally, equipped with a Life Saver system). The two Meisterklasse 130s were right next to each other. This was quite fascinating for me, because it was the first time I'd heard that one and the same piano can have slightly different characteristics. I don't know if you can attribute that solely to age. Five years isn't very long, after all, and I'm sure that the piano maker and owner had, firstly, taken good care of his own piano and, secondly, had chosen this particular model from among several. When you played individual notes one after the other on both pianos, they sounded pretty much the same. When playing pieces together, the "boss's" piano sounded even smoother than I'd already experienced with the Sauter Masterclass pianos. Of course, you'd have to hear it at home. It was a (very) large family piano business that had been selling pianos since 1863. Continuously in the same family, always passed down to the children.

Personally, in this setting, I would have preferred the second Masterclass (not the boss's ;)), because it didn't sound quite so "well-behaved." But probably still more so than all the other uprights from various brands that were in the room.

I also played the Competence 130. It's certainly beautiful, and the tonal similarity to the Sauter Masterclass is audible, but I find the Masterclass to sound noticeably more refined. But of course, buying a piano isn't the end of the story (intonation, etc.).

I also had the chance to play the August Förster again. I understand why some people love it, because it is very, very unique. The piano technician said before I played: "Well, the two (Sauter Meisterklasse and Förster 125) are actually mutually exclusive. If you like one, you won't like the other." I don't know if you can see it that radically, but for me, the choice would be quite clear: the Sauter Meisterklasse. It's much more precise (to my ears). Yes, August Förster has a singing quality, that's what it's known for, but for me, it was a bit too much of a good thing. Besides, I didn't like how the pedal felt. But you can probably adjust that to some extent.

So, if I were to switch, then only the Sauter Meisterklasse would be in the running. Well, and the Grotrian G124 under certain circumstances. But that's not available in Nuremberg; I'd have to go to Munich, where there's only one left. I hope I can get around to it in the next few days.

Thanks in any case for your assessments and your expertise.

P.S. I still hope, of course, that Grotrian will find a savior. But a German won't be found. We are no longer the nation of "poets and thinkers." It's incredibly sad that the great German piano-making tradition is dying piece by piece (in large chunks) and/or being sold off to China.

Steinway in the past has sued Grotrian-Steinweg and forcing the company to remove the word "Steinweg" and use only "Grotrian" for the instruments sold in the US. Obviously Grrotrian-Steinweg was still able to sell the piano to the rest of the world under the same name.
Because of that It is unlikely that Steinway will buy Grotrian. I still hope for a rich German who is also a poet and thinker as stated by 88Problems.

I had forgotten about the Steinway- suing Grotrian problem. As long as the new buyer is dedicated to preserving Grotrian in Germany and has the talents needed in keeping the Q/C up it should be fine. Owning a piano factory today must be very difficult.

Didn't a wealthy German "Poet and Thinker" buy C Bechstein a handful of years ago?

Who was this “poet and thinker”?
Anyway, if he kept it German, well done.

His turn again to rescue Grotrian Steinweg.

I'm not entirely sure what you meant by that statement. Can you please explain it?

I cannot remember what his name was. I do not think he still owns it, perhaps he does with a number of share holders. Grotrian is still owned by the foreign owner.

I mean the German man (poet and thinker) who bought C.Bechstein.

Karl Schultz owned it perhaps it was he who brought it back to its former glory. But it was a different piano to what it originally was. Now it is more an international than a purely German piano and it still is. It is now owned by a group of shareholders headed by Stephen Freymuth ( spelling?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Bechstein

I see the names of the models of uprights mentioned in that article have all changed since then. Now the more expensive models are the Concert and the Residence models which are supposed to be equal but they differ in prices? The Academy are still there of course.
I read from one reliable source, (a PW member in Germany) that Bechstein bought Feurich. At the Bechstein Centre in Frankfurt I never saw any Feurich pianos. The only brands other than Bechstein were W Hoffmann and Zimmerman uprights and grands. So I have no idea who makes Feurich, if they are still made?

It is nice that you admire the MC models so much, even though you have never played one. They are wonderful pianos! I would however add that every one of the standard Sauter upright pianos and grands are put together perfectly. as well. Time is taken to make these. All done purely by hand as well. They are regulated and voiced over and over again. Listening to Fred Sturm a professional pianist and technician talk about about the amount of work done on every single upright is inspiring! By the way Sauter uprights sizes 122 and 130 are purely Renner action with double repitiion action. First Introduced by Johann Sauter in the 19th century the double repitiion has gradually been improved up to the present day.

The Sauter MC differs with the excellant hygrometer which is added inside the of the piano, there is also special Italian wood used for the soundboard. The Standard models use Bavarian Alpine spruce. The MC also used special wood for its hammers. Instead of a practice pedal like in the other models it has a sostenuto pedal. The cabinet details are also nicer than the standard models. They come in black ebony polish like the standard models although some of these regular models can be ordered in wood finish. Sometimes the wood finish increases the price and sometimes the are less than the black ones. Sauter has been making pianos for over 200 years.
The action in the MC is the same as the standard models, they sound the same. Being hand made there are slight differences in tone but are very similar MC and regular models.