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I have heard opinions both ways on this, but I want to know what you all think and why. Is it best to take a day or two off per week? I have heard it compared with weight training in which you need to give muscles time to heal, and those comparing said that the brain was the same way. I know with weight training, you will see much better improvement if you do NOT train every day of the week. Is it the same with piano? Actually, I sort of hope not, because I want to practice as much as I can Thanks.

Colin Thomson

Hi Colin, Welcome to the Forum!

Are you an experience pianist or just beginning, it would make a difference to what might be suggested to you. You are right to think about avoiding injury or overtiredness.

You mention what you have heard - but I'd like to ask what have you been experiencing?

Just don't practice too much at any one time until your body and mind can handle a longer length of time. How you use your body is very important - "technique".

Practicing as much as you need to is a good goal, but please don't set some incredible time limit that you want to have it done by. The brain responds when it is ready. So practicing right now, if you are just starting, is to create the "building blocks" of piano playing.

Betty

good for you

Welcome to the forum Colin!

I really don't know the answer to your question but what I really know that the brain will definitely need a break.

I have experienced a phenomenon that most pianists can describe, many times: I become stuck in a passage and I can't get past it or I can't memorize a passage. Then I take a break from the piano for some time (for example to the next day) and when I return I find that I have progressed in the period of absence from the keyboard. Weird heh?

As the cow guru in a Far Side cartoon said to a disciple cow, "Just make sure you take some time to eat the roses."

Basio - In his book, Fundamentals of Piano Practice, Chang mentions something similar to what you described. Post Practice Improvement.

http://www.pianofundamentals.com/book/en/1.II.15

Thanks for the replies and the welcomes. I have been taking piano for nine years, since I was nine, but a few years in there were just because I had to, otherwise I would have quit. I am very thankful that my parents made me stay with it, otherwise I would be MUCH farther behind. But I say this to let you know that some of those years were certainly not used as well as they could have been. I am probably about 2/3 of the way through the Thompson level three book, which is very frustrating for me, because I believe and hope that I am actually farther than that. I completed the Alfred books 1-6 a little while ago. I have learned and memorized (pretty well, will get it better) Chopin Waltz No. 3 in A minor, am working on Waltz No. 7 in C# Minor, as well as Rachmaninoff Prelude in C# Minor (wow, lots of minors). So that should give you a pretty good idea if where I am. I like to go through, in every key, the major, melodic, and harmonic minor scales, and every major and minor arpeggio (not 2s and 7s and such, just the normal triad) before I start working on pieces. I had been working on Hannon exercises before, but am not at the moment (scales and arpeggios seem to have so much more practical use). Also, I am teaching four of my siblings, as well as having one other student, another one starting tomorrow, another probably next week, and another middle of august.

I am trying to get in four hours a day if possible (weekends are harder, and I don't get in that much). This is more than I had been doing, but I am trying to step it up and work real hard at it. I think that longest that I have practiced for at one time without a break of at least a half hour was three hours. But my back got really sore by the end of that. Right now I am very motivated, and wanting to practice whenever I can.

Colin Thomson

Hi Colin and here's another welcome.

Yikes -- four hours per day! I do about 1 hour per day, usually every day. I think if you want or need to take time off at the weekend, you should. Don't feel guilty about a weekend of no or reduced piano.

On the other hand, if you feel the urge to practise at the weekend, and you can, don't fight it.

I practise about 4-5 hrs a day so that's about the same as you.
Well, I really feel that it's good to take a break and refresh yourself once a week, I do that and it really helps. Sometimes like once in a really long time, i'll take 2-3 days off and i'll feel much better and just feel like getting back to the piano.
About weekends, just do it. To me right now, everyday's the same because i'm spending full-time on the piano and theory with my private teacher.

"I have experienced a phenomenon that most pianists can describe, many times: I become stuck in a passage and I can't get past it or I can't memorize a passage. Then I take a break from the piano for some time (for example to the next day) and when I return I find that I have progressed in the period of absence from the keyboard. Weird heh?"
Haha...that happens to me too

Colin, Do you study with a teacher or are you self taught? 9 years just seems like a long time to still be using method books. Judging from the level of the pieces you mentioned, I would just drop the Thompson book and spend all of your time on more appropriate repertoire, learning technique through the pieces and scales/arpeggios.

Yes, I am studying with a teacher, otherwise I probably would drop the thompson

But I think it is good for me, since it is below my technical level to work out the less technical side of it as well, such as interpretation and such. At least that is what I keep telling myself

Also, the nine years has certainly not all been greatly productive years, and at least one I think I almost took all of off, just because lessons weren't happening, and I had no drive to do piano at the time.

The four hours is a very recent development, but I hope it is here to stay.

Colin Thomson

I do not practise at all in the usual sense of the word, unless you count a few minutes on the practice clavier in the morning every so often. I do play most days, sometimes for what must be a few hours in total, I suppose, depending on how the ideas flow. I don't have to be that disciplined any more to do what I want to do. I usually have one or two days a week when I do no playing, and perhaps listen more than usual.

I am not certain the analogy with training is entirely valid, especially for the creative aspects of music. While my action was being replaced I did no playing at all for seven weeks but found it made little difference.

I conjecture that results tend to be more ordered and proportional to effort when you are young but once you are past a certain stage regular discipline often seems to hinder creativity rather than help it. I am not entirely certain why this should be so.

Colin:

The objective of practice is quality practice, not necessarily quantity. And, you don't want to be producing frustration, anxiety, bodily pain, or confusing. You need a clear head to think along and maintain control of mind and hand coordination.

I hope your practice is working well for you....I would recommend "breathers" and "breaks" as I don't believe so much is helpful at one time....especially if you should be drilling a mistake into the process. I don't think it's wise to "cram" piano into place. The music comes through you as the well prepared "conduit".

Maybe you could mention what you are working on that takes 4 hours a day? Don't you have a fatigue level? Are you faring well?

With best of intentions!

I don't usually take a day off unless I am really tired, sick or I am travelling. There's just so much I like to do that I always feel I haven't got enough time.

When you speak about 4 hours - I wished I had that much time every day, and no doubt I could fill it. From next week I'll be on holiday for three weeks, and have two of that at home with plenty of time for the piano. My "to do" list includes:

- analysis of new pieces
- memorizing new pieces
- starting the new pieces
- working on pieces which are fairly new but where the keys are in my brain and fingers
- working on pieces I know already pretty well
- keep my little repertoire current
- theory
- eartraining

It's too much for me to do on work days but I hope I can get around to work on every point on my list during holiday.

I can only analyse, memorize and start one piece at a time, but once I am past that stage, I can work on more than one piece, and the number of pieces largely determins my practice time.

I'm a music student right now in college, and our professors really recommend two hours a day minimum, and generally only 30 min or so on pure technique, so you don't start spinning your wheels and lose time that would be better spent on repertoire. You can cram a whole lot in only two hours, though. You can even get to be a great pianist in less than that, but it may take you longer. Two Hours is a good thing to aim for if you want to start to see results quickly.

The Technique portion of my practice is generally this:

Wake up, get a piece of fruit.
Pick a key (generally the next one along the circle of fifths based on what I did the day before)
In that one key:
Major/Min scales - one octave, hands separate, two octaves together, three and four octaves contrary and similar motion, split octaves

Then in the same key, go through through your cadences, starting with I-IV-I-V-I and moving from there.

Then Arpeggios - Maj/Min, and later start doing things like adding the V7. One octave hands separate, two octaves hands together, three octaves hands together, then start adding contrary motion to it.

All this should only take a good half hour or so, if you do it right, paying careful attention to detail and your hand position throughout. Then the next day, you just choose the next key along the circle of fifths.

I've found it's a great way to jumpstart your focus. After going through that I generally have an easier time concentrating on my repertoire for the rest of my practice.

Another nice thing about this is it keeps you thinking about the theory behind it, especially when you're doing your cadences, and since you're spending so much time on a single key, by the time you go around the full circle and start over, you really know all of them. There probably won't be any keys that give you trouble. Also, later you start to see patterns in music while sight reading instead of actually reading the notes. You go "oh, that's such and such arpeggio, that's just this," you think the arpeggio and you play it.

Anyway, that's my warmup routine. After that it's all repertoire. It's really not as hard as it sounds, either. You start small and build up.


Also, I can't stress enough that your practice needs to be efficient. Don't waste times replaying things that you already have down just to avoid parts that you can't play yet. Make sure you're really doing things correctly too. Doublecheck your fingering, watch bad habits and stop them from forming.

oh yeah...I almost forgot to mention, this is how I split my practise time of 4-5 hrs

30 mins-45 mins: technique - 1 key per day (includes scales, 3rd's, 6th's, fomular pattern, chromatic scales, solid chords, broken chords, alternate chords, appegios, broken octaves and broken chromatic octaves)

45 mins to 1 hr: Bach or Mendelssohn and Rachmaninoff / 1 hr 45 mins: Bach and Mendelssohn
45 mins to 1 hr: Haydn sonata or Beethoven Sonata / 2 hrs for both
45 mins to 1 hr: Chopin Etude Op.10 No.8 and + 30 mins more for Chopin Etude Op.10 No.5
1 hr to 2 hrs: Schumann Concerto Movement 1 or Movement 2 and 3

Ok, here is my practice routine (although it is very flexible, and is never exactly the same). At the moment, though, it is something like:


30 minutes scales and arpeggios in every key

30 minutes Thompson song I am working on

30 minutes working hard and slow the scales and arpeggios in one key, as well as chords

1 hr Chopin Waltz No. 7

1 hr Rachmaninoff Prelude in C# minor

30 minutes sight-reading (I am very, VERY bad at this)


That is close, although, as I said, it is pretty much never the same. But I think the proportions are close.

Another thing I will mention is that I play the keyboard in a church band, and pretty much read guitar chords and improvise for that. So I am very fluent with playing chords, cadences, and such. I have also done some composing, for piano, or for string quartet, or for orchestra, or for whatever.

Thanks for all the replies.

Colin Thomson

Colin, I wonder if you're spending too much time on technique, honestly. Scales and Arpeggios in every key aren't something that I really consider necessary, and I wonder if you don't end up losing some of the focus when you work on more than one at a time. Spreading yourself thin, if you will.

Amelia's practice routine seems spot on, to me. There's something to be said for taking it slowly like that. You get a very complete musical workout by working on a single key a day. If you do it right you can easily spend 30-45min in that one key without feeling like you're plodding.

30 mins is not too much for technique but I would reccomend you to work on 1 or 2 keys a day only.

Remember that you want to do smart practice, not dumb practice. I know there are some people who take comfort in the routine of practice, but the goal is to improve and get out of there as quickly as you can with the most knowledge and progress.

I'm not sure why you keep the Thompson (there are far better methods out there, and far better supplementary music that you can sightread and do a quick study of in the 30 minutes you allot yourself) so I'd drop that. 30 minutes is enough for your warmup and technique drills. There is plenty of technique and exercises to be drawn from your repertoire. For example, in the B section of the Rachmaninoff, you can create a voicing exercise just from the right hand alone. Through that you can work on voicing with the 4th and 5th fingers, do slow practice hands separately, and really know your piece thoroughly.

As always practice the sections you have the most trouble with first. Don't bother with a runthrough until you feel reasonably sure you can play the entire piece at some steady tempo.

It is quite easy to sit down at the piano for some amount of hours and leave feeling completely unsatisfied and unhappy with the progress for the day. I've had some days of banging my head against the wall and feeling like nothing is happening, and those are the days I stop practice and go do something else. There are some days when I feel like whatever I'm doing is spot on, I am making so much progress, and I stay longer to reinforce what I have learned. It's up to what your mind is capable of doing day-to-day.

And always, always take breaks.

I think sleep is important to process what I have practice and make me ready for another step forward:

After I have practiced a certain passage or technical aspect for a while, I feel at some point that I am not improving much more.
The next day or later, after a good night's sleep, I pick up that passage and discover I can improve again right from the level I reach before.

Sleep well!